Early Recce O.C.T.U. Photo

Discussion in 'Recce' started by MyOldDad, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    [​IMG]

    c1941 photo of Recce officer cadets with instructors at Winston Barracks, Lanark. All cadet's signatures appear on the mount except Alan Blacker's whose photo this is. He has confirmed the names to the best of his memory as per the list below - he said they only knew eachother by their surnames and a series of rather obvious nick-names such as 'Ding-dong' Bell etc! The numbers against most of the signatures indicate the Recce Bn/Regt to which they were first posted.

    Back row left to right: Peter Buckley Carr 54th, R F C Burton 53rd, J B Collins 1st, J Forrest 3rd, Frank Howells 46th, Alan Blacker 51st, J A Cassell 56th, J P Andrew, E K Bottle 52nd.
    Middle row l to r: not known 54th, V Stuart Illingworth 48th, J H Ashton, not known, L B Drake 2nd, not known 48, D H Bramwell 46th, J ? Bell, ? Bird, G Ellison 4th,
    Front row l to r: M Beadle ?, C Baldock 46th, ? (instructor), ? (instructor), Major Paddy Brett Royal Irish Fusiliers and later 1 Recce (Brett Force), ? (instructor), ? (instructor), L? J Farnell 3rd, S F Heather 45th, J R Harpham 4th.


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    Tom.
     
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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Lovely pic, have you checked CWGC to see how many didn't survive?
    Front row 3rd left looks like Gren Gds cap badge, any idea on name?
     
  3. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Some of these officers did not survive the war:



    Name: HOWELLS, FRANK Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Reconnaissance Corps, R.A.C. Unit Text: 1st Regt. Age: 28 Date of Death: 10/11/1943 Service No: 210350 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Emily C. Howells. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: U.B. Sec. Grave 122. Cemetery: CATTERICK MILITARY CEMETERY

    Name: CARR, PETER BUCKLEY Initials: P B Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Reconnaissance Corps, R.A.C. Unit Text: 4th Regt. Age: 24 Date of Death: 24/06/1944 Service No: 210342 Additional information: Son of the Revd. Buckley Carr, B.A., and Winifred Carr. B.A. (Oxon.). Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: VII, G, 4. Cemetery: ASSISI WAR CEMETERY

    Name: HARPHAM, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Captain Regiment/Service: Reconnaissance Corps, R.A.C. Unit Text: 4th Regt. Age: 29 Date of Death: 25/05/1943 Service No: 210331 Additional information: Son of John Richmond Harpham and Amelia Harpham; husband of Winifred May Harpham, of St. Austell, Cornwall. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 1. Column 3. Memorial: BROOKWOOD MEMORIAL

    Frank Howells was a personal friend of Alan Blacker's and they were later instructors at the Recce Battle School, Reeth, Swaledale. Howells was an instructor in the use of mortars and was giving a training lecture in a partioned, two roomed, hut. A training session was being held in the other part of the hut on the use of the Bren gun. A stray live round had been loaded with inert ammo in the Bren and was accidentally discharged, the round passing through the partition wall, shooting Howells throuh the thigh, tearing his femoral artery and leading to sudden massive blood loss. He died at the scene.

    Tom.
     
  4. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Lovely pic, have you checked CWGC to see how many didn't survive?
    Front row 3rd left looks like Gren Gds cap badge, any idea on name?

    Hi Owen,
    I was on it!
    I will see if I can enlarge any visble insignia re the instructors. Sadly their names are lost to memory.
    Tom.
     
  5. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    Great pic.

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  6. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Lovely pic, have you checked CWGC to see how many didn't survive?
    Front row 3rd left looks like Gren Gds cap badge, any idea on name?

    These are as hi-res as I can get from my original scan - I no longer have the original photo in my possession:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tom.
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Top Left: Sgt Grenadier Guards as Owen says.

    Top Right: W02 (CQMS) just looked through Kipling and King and can't find anything that looks right. I keep thinking Green Howards or Pioneer Corps though.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Can you try the chap on the middle row far right too.
     
  9. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Top Right: W02 (CQMS) just looked through Kipling and King and can't find anything that looks right. I keep thinking Green Howards or Pioneer Corps though.

    Could it be a griffon style badge like the Buffs?

    buffs_royal_east_kent_badge1.jpg

    Tom.
     
  10. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Can you try the chap on the middle row far right too.

    Hi Andy,
    Here he is!

    [​IMG]

    Tom.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Could be Tom. It looks like it has two scroll/motto lines, a straight one first just above the chin strap and a shorter one above that. then a round emblem - my eyes ain't that good lately though.
     
  12. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Re. Bell (3rd right, middle row):
    Alan Blacker remembers meeting Bell in Cairo c1943 and asking what had happened to him as he had left the OCTU before the official end of the course. Bell told him he had joined what would now be termed 'special forces' (he doesn't remember his exact words). Blacker said 'that must have been exciting' but Bell replied: "I spent most of the time lying in a drain by the coast road counting vehicles!"
    L.R.D.G.??

    Tom.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Could be Tom, I believe SAS and other units were doing stuff like that too in '43. Kuno would be your best bet mate.

    A
     
  14. massimo.alvisi

    massimo.alvisi Junior Member

    Hi Tom,
    I'm interested to have a confirm to you: "Paddy" Brett is in the center of Front Line (with prodruting ears)?
    In the photo, Is it not present his signature?
    Massimo
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Massimo,

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The first photograph with names listed shows Brett as being sat centre front row, holding the officers stick.

    I think this is your man who led "Brettforce".

    Hope you received the email with the scans.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. massimo.alvisi

    massimo.alvisi Junior Member

    Dear Tom,
    the strange is that I had a footage of a movie dated 1947 in which I think Paddy Brett is photographed and he appears with "prominent" ears...very similar to the Officer on the right you pointed out
    How can I attach the footage/picture to show you?

    Massimo
     
  17. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Hi Tom,
    I'm interested to have a confirm to you: "Paddy" Brett is in the center of Front Line (with prodruting ears)?
    In the photo, Is it not present his signature?
    Massimo

    Hi Massimo,
    This is Major Paddy Brett:

    [​IMG]

    His signature does not appear on the photo as it was only the officer cadets who signed eachother's photos at the end of the course. (They were not interested in the instructors!)
    Kind regards,
    Tom.
     
  18. MyOldDad

    MyOldDad Senior Member

    Massimo,
    As regards your earlier enquiry about 'Brett Force', here is an extract from the War Diary of 1st Reconnaissance Regiment for May 1944:


    21st: BRETT FORCE formed under comd VI US Corps. 1 Recce Regt RHQ, B Sqn 9 Tp, Sec 3 Tp, Sec 4 Tp, A3 Echelon component. 36 US Engrs One Bn, One Tp 894 TD. In Support 156 Fd Regt RA etc.
    Task: to break out of Beach head on coastal sector west of LITTORIA and link up with main 5 Army Forces advancing from the SOUTH for link up with 504/509 Para dropped in area SEZZE east of Highway 7.
    1200 1 Recce components concentrated RHQ and Echs 994182. B Sqn 014148.
    ADVANCE PLANNED TO COMMENCE 1400 hrs but this luckily cancelled. HQ 36 Engrs at 994182.
    1400 OO No.3 issued (incl flank guard greater strength on left hand (NORTH) route after conference with US staff). LO sent to 34 US Div. D.6
    21:st C Sqn under comd 1 Div to support likely breakout by 18 Bde on British Sector.
    22nd: CO and local comds made reconnaissance. Enemy generally strong about x–roads 0414 – CERRETO ALTO 0415 – wadi at 0517.
    1800 1 Div, 5 Div revert comd V. Army. Brettforce remains under comd VI Corps. C.4
    Tac HQ (two Dingo, 2 DR CO and IO) to BORGO SABATINO.
    2000 91 Recon Bn (88 US Div) unconfirmed at TERRACINA searched frequencies and call signs and put set on frequency. C.2, C.3
    18 Inf Bde Operation Instruction RHINO received. E.1
    Plan for 23/24 Assault Engrs in attack on house at 062136 and 066135. C.5
    23rd: 0515 11 Tp in posn about 044142 ready to support 13 Tp moving to 048146. The enemy generally active. 88 mm fire from COPPOLA 065145 knocked out one MAC and 36 Engrs approaching from 058120 were under heavy mortar and SA fire continually.
    1100 Park house 066315 gained with one PW. NOT consolidated (the engrs continually did this: a fine offensive piece of work would never be consolidated perhaps owing to superior directives).
    1430 Order received not to become involved. The action was cleared up and B sqn withdrew at 1700 whilst the engrs pocketed 044142. One PW from 715 G.R. C.6
    1300 1 S.S.F. across Highway 7 at 069284.
    1720 Frequency trouble again during day on 7200 with other stations on group. Get 6625 spare.
    VI Corps commenced general attack towards CISTERNA today.
    24th: Gen Hawkesworth leaves Div. Gen C.F. Loewen CE assumes command. No ops during day 36 Engrs maintained contact as far as possible. Some shelling and casualties on harbour area. J.5
    Put set on listening watch for 91 Recon and received some signals about 1830 but trouble experienced with their codes etc. Later in the evening CO 36 Engrs said that the enemy appeared to have withdrawn, and plans were immediately made to pursue at first light. 9 and 13 Tps were sent forward at 2200 hrs to recce COPPOLA and reported no contact just before first light 25 May.
    2100 Brettforce and 36 Engrs revert to comd V Army. E.2, E.3
    25th: 0500 Advance commenced. Minefileds own caused casualties at 035188 and 048182. Brooklyn at 084129 reported clear.
    0836 “Holdfast on GRAND have met HOLDFAST coming other way”. Meeting took place at BORGO GRAPPA and full liaison was rapidly made.
    0900 Following area reported clear BORGO SAB – X–roads 0317 – Strada 0716 – BRONX 123146 – 096120 – 095122 – but BRONX heavily cratered.
    Army Comd came to check over liaison.
    Advance resumed towards LITTORIA. Bulldozer leading.
    25th: 1015 BORGO PIAVE clear.
    1240 LITTORIA occupied without incident.
    1145 Leading tps110238.
    1655 On Highway 7 and contact made at 070284 with Recon unit. C.7
    1900 Concentrated on Highway 7. C Sqn moved up by mistake and then sent away. C.8
    2000 Orders for reversion to comd 1 Div. Move at first light 26 May. E.4
    Beachhead News. J.6
    26th: 0900 Brettforce complete in regt harbour area.
    (0756 – 15 Bde relieve 3 bde and 1 Buffs). E.5
    Div inter bde boundary, E.6
    CORI and ARTENA fall. Situation EAST of SEZZE confused.
    27th: 141/224. Issued re–organisation order. D.7
    CO received pereoarating [?] order from Div Comd.
    1 Div moves forward slightly in sympathy to wadi CARROCETELLO on DEAD END ROAD.
    German minefield overlay. E.7
    28th: Div continued to advance and occupied Factory area without opposition.
    2100 1 div orders to capture all concerned VALLE LATA 8634 – rd junc 847377. Right 18 Inf Bde, left 2 Inf Bde. C.9
    29th: 0130 Orders given for immediate moves. C.10
    0500 Assault Sqn conc Medium Lane. Tac HQ to PADIGLIONE.
    0900 RHQ to second Flyover. A Sqn also 8632. C.11
    Assault Sqn sent forward to contact on axis of railway bed and reached 820365. Inf took over about 1700 hrs.
    A Sqn was committed and deployed earlier.
    1700 B Sqn harboured 8229.
    A Sqn sent patrols to ARDEA. Good work by LANCE also found town occupied and shot his way through. Another patrol approaching the turn from the SOUTH met trouble and the I.O attempting to make contact ran into heavy MG fire in his scout car from which he bailed out and is now missing.
    30th: 0530 C Sqn sent out to contact US forces operating NW of CAMPOEONE. Tank battles were violent here during the day at 8540.
    1000 RHQ to BUONRIPOSO Ridge.
    B Sqn under comd 5 Div Recce forward from ARDEA and located body of Lieut. JEFFREY. Patrolled as far as 780358 and 760336 during the day. Returned to harbour BUONRIPOSO 1800 hrs.
    Assault Sqn placed under command A and carried out right flank patrolling in 8438. Withdrawn to harbour with A at 8334.
    1800 2 Inf Bde attacked PIANO feature without much success being unable to consolidate. D.8
    31st: B Sqn advance first light but found following M.L.R. 755385 – 773394 – 785393 – 795395 – 8139 – 8239.
    1930 Inf took over at fwd limit and sqn harboured and reverted from comd 5 Div.
    C Sqn maintained offr liaison patrols with U.S. tps.
    A Sqn maintained patrols on various sectors.
    VI Corps make sudden progress NORTH of VELLETRI at 9646 and 9949.

    Sadly the diaries for June, July, August and September are missing but 1st Recce Regt were temporarily withdrawn from the front line on 8th June 1944 having 'done their job'!
    Tom.
     
  19. massimo.alvisi

    massimo.alvisi Junior Member

    Thanks Tom
    for your reply and your attached war diary.
    You know that the objects of my research are "The allied troops that entered in Littoria".
    So I Could compare the two war Diaries of the Units that I know were entering in Littoria/Latina: BRETT Force (1 Recce and other US Units) and 36thCE.

    Where did you have the information that that Officer is Maj. Brett?
    I will send you the footage of a movie dated 1947, in which the operator and the subtitle, indicate as like Maj Paddy Brett.
    Have you any information about his "real" name? In the official report/despach he is signed LtCol. EAS Brett.

    The questioned point is also the Link up point, Borgo Grappa, 7 Km SE from, where Anzio troops meeting Cassino Units. I think that there are an "official" propaganda version and a real version. In the first one I could find signal of "internal conflict" beetween Gen. Clark (US) and Gen Alexander (BR) that you know growed in the drive to Rome, too.

    Don't hesitate to ask me information on Anzio I'll do all my best.

    A presto Massimo
     
  20. ethan

    ethan Member

    Hi 'Baldock' is Cyril Baldock of 45 Recce. He came through Burma and appears in pictures in 'War in the Wilderness'. He also appeared in one of the VJ day documentaries, I believe he served in Hong Kong and Germany post-war. He died in 2009
     

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