Dunkirk Evacuees

Discussion in 'General' started by Auditman, May 27, 2010.

  1. Auditman

    Auditman Senior Member

    Looking at TV this week I have seen several vets with their medals up. Quite a few have The Africa Star. Do statistics exist to show how many of the UK soldiers picked up at Dunkirk, St Valery etc went on to serve in the Middle East?

    We often hear of the role these men would have played in defending the UK from invasion thanks to Dunkirk but to what extent was the ultimate success in the desert war down to having a large body of men available through Op Dynamo?

    Just a thought

    Jim

    PS I've not forgotten the Aussie/NZ/South Africans and Indian Forces etc
     
  2. Mathsmal

    Mathsmal Senior Member

    From what I have been able to ascertain through interviews I've carried out, quite a high number ended up in North Africa, or Italy, later in the war. One chap I met escaped from Dunkirk, only to be captured in Libya.
     
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    In the immediate aftermath of the fall of France, when any invasion threat was highest, most of the units were still in the UK. In terms of infantry divisions, the first five were as follows :-

    1st Division - UK until 2/43 then to North Africa
    2nd Division - UK until 4/42 then to Far East
    3rd Division - UK until 6/44 then to NW Europe
    4th Division - UK until 3/43 then to North Africa
    5th Division - UK until 3/42 then to Madagascar (in part)

    I stand open to correction but I think that 50th Division would have been one of the first ex-BEF units to leave the UK, departing for North Africa in June 1941.
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    An old mate of mine who was at Dunkirk went to India & then Burma , he was in the Admin Box.
    Therefore he got the Burma Star.
    My wife's Grandad was in Tunisia & Italy so has the Africa & Italy Star.
     
  5. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    My Dad was at Dunkirk with the 2nd Grenadiers, transferred to Recce and was in Tunisia & Italy so has the Africa & Italy Star.

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  6. charge

    charge Junior Member

    Now there's a coincidence. My Dad was at Dunkirk and the Admin Box. He was with 28th Jungle Field Regiment, 5th Indian Division. He'll be 92 next month! Kevin
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Kevin and welcome to the forum. Can you tell us more about your father's service in 1940 -I have a bit of an interest in 1940 France.

    Best wishes to your father.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  8. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    Kevin welcome to the forum

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  9. charge

    charge Junior Member

    Hi Andy, Dad says he enlisted in 1939 with the 69th Anti-Tank Regiment based at the Longmoor Army Camp, Hampshire and was soon sent to France with the BEF at the outbreak of war.

    He says they landed at Orchy, Balaruc-les-Bains, which is on the Mediterranean coast, yet I've been unable to find any reference to troop ships in that port. My guess is that he landed at Cherbourg and traveled overland to Orchy. His memory is not bad for a 92 year old but asking him to remember back 70 years is a challenge.

    They first engaged the Germans at Lille and were fighting in and around the university.

    He was eventually evacuated from Dunkirk aboard HMS Javelin, from the harbour on 30th May.

    Kevin
     
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Kevin, a bit of a puzzle here. Did your Dad move about before his posting to 69th Anti-Tank Regt. ? They formed part of 45th Division and were in the UK from 9/39 to 2/42.

    Are you sure that the location in Southern France is correct ? There were plenty of British troops in Orchies near the Belgian border.

    I think that you're going to have to ask him to request his service record. He can do that free of charge.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    The only 69th Artillery unit in France was 69 Medium Regiment Royal Artillery. As Rich say I would ask him to apply for a copy of his service records. I'll be able to help you further with the France 1940 stuff once you know the unit(s)

    HMS Javelin did two Op Dynamo runs one on the 28th May and the other on the 29th. Both to Dover.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  12. charge

    charge Junior Member

    That sounds more like it Rich, Orchies not Orchy which is too far south. So I had the wrong spelling. No wonder Dad was mystified the other day when I asked if he entered France through the Mediterranean!

    Dad doesn't wont to apply for his army records. He says he doesn't have a good record. When she was alive, Mum used to say she didn't know from one month to the next if Dad would have one stripe, two or three. He was up and down the ranks like a yoyo. Never the less, I’ll have to twist his arm and get that record. Kevin

    He enlisted in London and went straight to Longmoor Army Camp, which is close to Aldershot in Hampshire, and from there went to France with the BEF. He was shipped out with the outbreak of war.
     
  13. charge

    charge Junior Member

    Thanks Drew, I’ll have to get those records from Dad, this is too confusing. He has always said he was in the 69th Anti-Tank Regiment, based at Longmoor and went to France with that Unit with the outbreak of war, as I wrote to Rich.

    I do have a copy of HMS Javelin’s log for that period. Dad says he boarded the ship from the harbour so I’m able to pinpoint the day he left Dunkirk as 30 May 1940.

    On the 28th Javelin picked men from the beach. Returned on 29th and departed from the harbour on 30th.

    Here’s one of his stories: He and his friend arrived at the beach only to find the Sergeant Major marching the men out into the sea. When the water was up to their chest they were told to swim to the rescue boat. Well, neither of the men could swim so they walked along the beach, under heavy fire, to the harbour where they boarded HMS Javelin.

    Kevin
     
  14. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    When I was first called up in October '42, I can remember that a fair amount of the Drill Sergeants were ex Dunkirk men, including my own particular Troop Sergeant.

    I would think that it is fair to assume that those men who came out of Dunkirk formed the core of the future Primary Training Units and were able to pass on their hard earned skills to those of us who were to follow.

    Ron
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If he was in Aldershot my money would be on him being part of I Corps which starts to narrow it down. Longmoor Still exsists and is used today for training and transit - I suspect its in still the same condition as it was during WW2 from when I was last there.

    I'll do some more digging on Javelin later and cross ref what I've said about here in a couple of other books on the Navy side of things.

    I'll get on of the mods to move both to the 1940 section and start a seperate thread too.
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Some bullet pointed entries from the Admiralties The Evacuation from Dunkirk and BEF Ships-before, at and after Dunkirk.

    • On 28th May the Destroyers Codrington, Jaguar and Javelin, diverted from patrol, arrived off Dunkirk at 1315 hrs. The Codrington went into Dunkirk harbour, while the Jaguar and Javelin using their own boats, emabarked troops from Bray beach.
    • On 29th May at 0430 hrs, just before sunrise, the destroyers Javelin, Icarus, Vanquisher, Intrepid and Ivanhoe, enroute from Dover to Dunkirk, sighted the sinking Grafton. Javelin and Icarus entered Dunkirk harbour.
    • An attempt to maintain an adequate lift rate with only the older destroyers was failing so all of the modern H,I and J classes which had been withdrawn on the 29th May were ordered back to Dunkirk on the 30th May except for Intrepid, Jaguar and Javelin.
    HMS Javelin was commanded by Commander A F Pugsley RN and she was part of the 1st Flotilla. She landed troops twice at Dover, the first being at 2225 hrs on 28th May with 624 troops and the second at 1315 hrs on 29th May with 629 troops.
     
  17. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    My great uncle was a pre-war regular with the RASC and was with the 4th Division in 1940. Not sure yet how he left France/Belgium but he arrived back in the UK on 29 May 1940. I believe the 4th Division was evacuated from Dunkirk.

    Anyway, he went on to serve with PAI Force, attached to 164 Field Ambulance, RAMC and was in Madagascar, India, the Middle East and North Africa. He died of disease in July 1943. I know his unit took part in the invasion of Sicily but I don't know if he was with them. I've had trouble getting the records from Kew (they seem to be still closed).

    I've posted about him on another thread -
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/32417-rasc-ramc-great-uncle.html

    I have a question for any member who can help.

    Immediately after he left the BEF he was posted to the "ITC Ryl War Regt" - which I understand is the Infantry Training Company of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (thanks to Owen).

    Was that unusual? Why would he be posted there rather than back to another RASC unit?

    Cheers
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Some people came back as individuals, some as a unit. People were all over the place with officers going to camps looking for their men and men arriving under there own steam in dribs and drabs. His unit may have ceased to exsist after Dunkirk so it could have just been a normal posting or he may have had a skill that was needed at that ITC.

    It looks like he went there and then back to his unit where ever they were 6 weeks later. The units diaries may help.
     
  19. Hi,
    can I refer you to the Signals area of the Forum and Andy's post ' A Brief History of 50 Div'. In post 15 Dad says that all of the old NCO's did not follow them to Blanford, when they returned from Dunkirk.
    (Presumably some going into the Training Units mentioned by Ron - many were WW1 veterans according to Dad)

    After re-equiping and bringing numbers up to strength 50 Div Signals shipped out from Greenock in early '41 to the Middle East. They didn't come back to Blighty until late '43.

    51st Highland were also veterans of 1940 and campaigned in North Africa etc.
     
  20. jainso31

    jainso31 jainso31

    51st Highland were captured at St Valery but were reincarnated by cannibalising the 9th Scottish Div.

    jainso31
     

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