Dresden: barbarism and vengeance

Discussion in 'General' started by T-34, May 9, 2006.

  1. KevinC

    KevinC Slightly wierd

    F.Taylor identifies 127 odd industrial units allocated their own three letter code which means they were producing items for the war effort, eg Zeiss had a major interest in Dresden. ( blc/rln).
    German records do not include the supporting workshops and subsidiary units which were not included in the 127 industrial concerns.
    Taylor does explain that the Dresden industries employed not only local people but their fair share of slave and forced labour a number of the Jewish people who could remain at their place of work whilst returning to "camp" type accommodation , their homes and belongings became the property of the State and in time they were disposed of by being "sent eastwards for resettlement".
    This speaks for itself and the essential difference between a reasonable view of Dresden and its fate is that apart from the libraries , the architecture etc being considered a more inclusive view of the city is taken.

    A means to an end , yes when Germany was defeated but was still being driven to fight to the last youngster OAP and "round" , rounds which were still claiming lives - 100,000 Russians died to take Berlin , Hitler would not have had it any other way and nor would Stalin - who cared as little for his soldiers lives as Hitler did for his.
    thanks for the response. I only watchesd the frist few interviews. I assume they were unaware of what was being produced in the area. I assume the same went for a large percentage of refugees who came to Desden thinking it would be safe from air attacks.
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    Allow me to share some email messages to the site from the originator of this thread after I banned 'em, just so we don't forget how popular this subject is with certain axe-grinders.
    I don't normally do this, but these are the full texts of three emails that I'll now always have at the back of my mind whenever Dresden (among other subjects) boils to the surface.

    Such style, such grace, such spelling.
    Anyone might think he subscribed to some sort of agenda?.. :rolleyes:


    Members,

    Please accept my apologies on behalf of my internet buddy T-34.

    Such language - I must take him to task if we ever meet.

    Seems he did not win this discussion either! By not reverting to his email tirade, VP has handed him another bad loss.:wink:
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Worry not Jeff, he didn't take too long in getting himself banned! I'm surporised how he lasted 2 months and 148 posts here, but at the time the forum wasn't what it is now :)
     
  4. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    I'd like amend my last sentence. I should not have absolved the German people for the rise of NS and painted them as the first victims.

    However if the American people were swapped for the German people in the 1930's I'm not certain they would have taken a different course.

    I'll crawl back in my hole now.

    Earthican,

    As astute observation!

    As a German immigrant to Canada once said to me, in one of his more candid moments," Just so you fully understand, by 1939 we were ALL Nazi's and if you had been there you would have been one too". That comment wasn't a boast nor was it an apology. More of a simple statement of fact.
     
    REK likes this.
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    Worry not Jeff, he didn't take too long in getting himself banned! I'm surporised how he lasted 2 months and 148 posts here, but at the time the forum wasn't what it is now :)

    I think that "then" we tried to be nice to someone who was blinded by his ideology. But alas he was nothing but a flamer!
     
  6. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    I think that "then" we tried to be nice to someone who was blinded by his ideology. But alas he was nothing but a flamer!

    As Churchill so eloquently said, "A FANATIC is one who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject".
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Canuck -
    Similarly - as an old Italian said to me at one time - IF you wanted to work - and eat - you had to be a fascist......it was all about survival - not much different to-day really
    Cheers
     
  8. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Originally Posted by Earthican
    I'd like amend my last sentence. I should not have absolved the German people for the rise of NS and painted them as the first victims.

    However if the American people were swapped for the German people in the 1930's I'm not certain they would have taken a different course.

    I'll crawl back in my hole now.

    I do regard the German people as being their ( The NSDAP's) first victims , Hitler never actually won an election which was open and fair , and not every German was a Nazi.
    In 1938 and in 1939 the German people did not want a war and they certainly did not subscribe to the values which brought T4 about.
    The Nazis never hid the fact that they had concentration camps - they wanted "bad Germans" to know what awaited them if they stepped out of line.
     
  9. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    In reading about the operations of the Canadian 1st Army in the spring of 1945, I was struck by the timing of the Blockbuster and Veritable offensives. They coincide with the Dresden raid and the Allied servicement involved would have been hard pressed to say that Germany was beaten.

    From Wikipedia:

    The Germans, for their part, could rely on excellent defensive installations: antitank ditches, networks of trenches and fortified positions, as well as an apparently inexhaustible supply of weapons and ammunition. They were now fighting for their homeland and that thought increased their determination. In addition, it rained most of the time. The humidity and the cold created uncomfortable combat conditions. In spite of all this, the operation was off to a good start, with the advanced positions falling on the first day and the Siegfried Line was broken as early as February 10.
    On February 16, the 7th Infantry Brigade met unexpected opposition near the Moyland Wood, close to Calcar. The men encountered machine gun, mortar and artillery fire. After a few days of violent combat and heavy casualties for the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the Canadian Scottish, the 7th Brigade organized a systematic assault to clear the forest of the remaining enemy. On February 21, the woods was captured, but the six days of fighting cost the division 485 men killed, wounded, or captured.
    "A Co'y and C Co'y are encountering considerable opposition in the Moyland Wood. There seemed to be large numbers of enemy there despite the fact that enemy posts had been previously cleared by British units…"
    — Regina Rifle Regiment, War Diary, 16–18 February 1945
     
  10. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    canuck
    On February 16, the 7th Infantry Brigade met unexpected opposition near the Moyland Wood, close to Calcar. The men encountered machine gun, mortar and artillery fire. After a few days of violent combat and heavy casualties for the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the Canadian Scottish, the 7th Brigade organized a systematic assault to clear the forest of the remaining enemy. On February 21, the woods was captured, but the six days of fighting cost the division 485 men killed, wounded, or captured.


    As you illustrate very well our own troops were still being killed and the war was far from "over" for the men in the front line.
     
  11. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    As you illustrate very well our own troops were still being killed and the war was far from "over" for the men in the front line.

    Hindsight is a most wonderous science but during the war it was kill or be killed.

    As they say war is a very nasty business.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    "It isn't over till the fat lady sings", and it had to wait until the Fat Boy had "sung"...
     

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