Dotting the "i"s

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Ron Goldstein, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The Chinese have a saying " May you live in interesting times"

    This is sometimes regarded as a curse, according to what interpretation one makes on the word "interesting", but I have always been happy to regard this as a blessing rather than a curse.

    I personally was born in interesting times and I've never, or rarely, had any regrets at the cards that fate dealt me at the time of my birth.

    I have now reached a position in life where I look to (as the thread title suggests) dot the "i"s of my memories.

    Yesterday I was trawling through my Army Album Ron Goldstein's Actual Army Album
    and on Page 33 came across a song sheet, bought in Trieste in 1946, that contained the lyrics of a song entitled "Angiolina". In those days, it was impossible to drink in a bar in the city without that song playing in the background.

    It set me wondering if I could find the original song on the internet and I went to my first port of call, the excellent "Spotify". This gave me many versions but all poor "re-hashes" of the original so I went to "a-Trieste" an Italian website to which I sometimes make postings in the English Section.

    Within minutes up came the definitive link to the original song, albeit recorded on a creaky old gramaphone player YouTube - Carlo Buti Angiolina and recorded by a gentleman named Carlo Buti.

    Now may I suggest that you look at Page 33 of my album, displayed below for your convenience, and sing along with me !

    Sheer bliss ! :lol:

    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just been trying to find a another version & my kids are giving me that , "Dad you're mad " look.
     
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Further to my finding "Angiolina" on Spotify.

    This morning I was browsing through my album looking at the same page and wondering if Spotify could find me someone singing "Io tho incontrata a Napoli ( I met you in Naples).

    Sure enough, ten seconds later I was listening to Mario Da Vinci filling my room with this haunting melody and I was transported back to wartime Italy, a young man, with all my life ahead of me.

    Who ever said "Nostalgia aint what it used to be" :)
     
  4. Larry

    Larry WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ron.
    Over 2.000 stories , sounds like an Australian cricket score, keep up the good work as I enjoy reading them.
    Larry
     
  5. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I've reached an age when one becomes very much aware of a need to "dot the 'i's" of one's personal history.

    I think I've made a fair start by giving my Army Album to the IMW and I've also spent a lot of time updating the Blogsites that cover my WW2 memories.
    Ron Goldstein's Actual Army Album
    Ron Goldstein's Army Album

    To remind you (and me !), for a couple of years between 2004 & 2006 I spent an inordinate amount of time on the BBC's Peoples War site and I've recently been looking at the archives with a view to instructing my family on how to use the vast amount of info on the site that is now easily available.

    The BBC proudly claim that there are 47,000 stories and 15,000 images and now that they have their search problem sorted out I can't reccomend the site enough.

    Under the heading of "Not a lot of people know that !", can I mention the following?.

    Starting at the home page: BBC - WW2 People's War , under the heading "There are 64 categories of stories" there is a strip of Icons labelled Home Front.

    Click on the "Right" button and this will take you to the "British Army" suitably illustrated with a 1942 snap of yours truly. If you then click on that icon it will take you to the same snap, but enlarged.

    Now go back to the home page and on the same "64 Categories" strip of icons click on the "Right" button until you reach the heading "Occupation". The first photo is that of Peter Ghiringhelli headed "Resistance & Occupation". This will eventually take you to Peter's brilliant evocation of what it was like to be a child in wartime Italy
    BBC - WW2 People's War - A Childhood in Nazi-Occupied Italy

    Enough for now, but I warn you I may return to the subject !

    Ron
     
     
  6. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Ron
    Lets do the Italian gang show, alltogther now! thanks for the post and the gentle humour attached its brightened my day.
     
  7. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Angiolina is a great comic song, Ron
    Here it is with graphics of lovely waitresses: YouTube - Angiolina (Angelina) - Carlo Buti With Translation

    Which roughly translated goes like thisJust to stay here all the time
    I eat and drink all day long, Angiolina
    Angiolina,
    I adore your restaurant!

    I consume in great profusion
    spaghetti and meatloaf, Angiolina
    Angiolina
    Just to stay in your company.

    I love you,
    Angiolina, my darling,
    but between lunches and dinners
    I'm spending alomost a fortune.

    For you a week's wage
    vanishes in a day
    Dearest Angiolina,
    Angiolina I love you!

    With all the food I'm shoving down
    I already weigh almost a ton, Angiolina.
    Angiolina,
    I'm going to drive myself insane!

    I'm so attracted to you,
    but, my dear,
    I see that for your love
    I'll do something really stupid, Angiolina.

    I love you,
    Angiolina, my darling,
    but between lunches and dinners
    I spend alomost a fortune.

    For you a week's wage
    vanishes in a day
    Dearest Angiolina,
    Angiolina, I love you!


    Memories are made of this! :)

    Here's an American version YouTube - Angelina - Waitress at the Pizzeria
    But with the lyrics changed and not so funny as the original.
     
  8. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Well done Ron, you have provided some great resources to this site as well as others. Thank you!
     
  9. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The other day, our much esteemed forum expert Andy tipped me off that the Battleaxe Division paperback by Ken Ford was going cheap on Amazon.

    I immediately got myself a copy and couldn't wait to get some of my memories confirmed.

    This is not a book review, so I will skip some of the book's shortcomings but one particular item left me asking myself "will we ever know exactly what happened ?".

    I'm referring in this instance, to the 78 Div riots in Cairo in August 1944.

    On Page 246, Ken Ford quotes Cliff Chaston of the Kensingtons as saying the riots took place on the 12th ( See photo below)

    Although I have given my Army Album to the Imperial War Museum I have kept a duplicated copy plus transcripts of my remaining diaries so it was not too difficult to follow the trail.

    My diary says:
    Wednesday 9th. August 1944
    Nothing doing today except for rumours of what the Div. boys are doing to Cairo. On guard again, gorged myself with beer, pineapple & cheese rolls.

    Thursday 10th. August 1944
    Minor flap with truck this morning. Tents down, kit packed & aboard Dodge. Bought some beer for the move & still found time for flicks.

    Friday 11th. August 1944
    Moved off at 4 am & drove 190 miles in blazing sun to No.1 Anti Aircraft Training Camp at El Deir, 10 miles from Alex. Passed thrugh Cairo.

    I see that I had my week's leave in Cairo on the 1st of August (see Pages 19 & 20 of my Album)

    One final point, the Index at the back of the book says "Cairo Riots, 197" when the Cairo story is actually on Page 246

    ps
    Notwithstanding the gripes above I am still grateful to Andy for tipping me off and the book makes good light reading. I was also relieved to see that my old unit was given it's rightful place in the Div's Order of Battle :)
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Ron,

    Sorry to hear the book has a bit of possible fiction in it, have you thought about contacting the publisher/author regarding this?

    Does the book state the authors connection with the 78th?

    Regards
    Andy
     
  11. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Andy
    Does the book state the authors connection with the 78th?


    None that I can find, certainly not in the introduction.

    Hadn't thought of contacting the author......... might very well do that !

    Ron

    ps
    Have just sent off an e-mail to the publishers, Sutton Publishing and will let you know of any feedback.
     
  12. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I'm back again, discussing the "Battleaxe Division" book by Ken Ford.

    On page 77 I found a quotation so true to my own experiences that I've earmarked the page (I've said that I don't have much faith in the Index!) and couldn't wait before drawing your attention to the theory expounded.

    Maj.R.C. 'Toby' Taylor of the East Surreys recalls:
    Ninety-five per of the Army never saw live Germans (unless they were POWs).
    Rven as a rifle company commander at the sharp end one did not see all that many. If you did then you were definitely too near !. I killed lots of Germans (it was my job): If I did then it was mostly by directing artillery and mortar fire etc. I personally only shot one and he was not looking my way!


    As a light Ack Ack man I never saw the enemy. Full stop !

    Yes..... I suffered his bombing, shelling and mortar fire but I never actually saw him.

    Even as a "tankie", right at the sharp end and literally chasing the enemy immediately to my front, I never actually saw him, although he undoubtably saw me and I probably killed him.
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/veteran-accounts/16716-while-i-remember.html

    Before others respond with "what about those poor buggers who landed on the beaches of Normandy" I would consider that they saw even less of the enemy than I did.
    I would remind you that the Germans were responding from well fortified positions and I doubt very much if those who were wounded and killed on that day even glimpsed their enemy before they were cut down.

    Wouldn't if be good to hear from one of the 5% ?

    Your comments please ?

    Ron
     
  13. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Ron
    Understand your angst the same guy wrote a book about the 6th Aromoured division and screwed up the Orbat at the end, I bougth the book read it and was disappointed.
     
  14. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Andy & Oldman

    Just had my e-mail bounced back from Sutton Publishing and guess that they have closed down.

    Do either of you two gents know how to contact Ken Ford ?

    Thanks

    Ron
     
  15. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Last night I watched HM The Queen receiving her 11th (?) Prime Minister and my thoughts went back to her own coronation.

    One of the quirks of reaching a certain age is the urge to pass on a story before it gets lost in the clouds of time.

    The danger is, of course, that you may have told the tale before and that this will thereby add to your "boring" score.

    Having said that, occasionally you have to take a chance, so, with the proviso that you can tell me if I have posted this before, I now propose to tell you about the only member of my family that has been held by royalty -_-

    The royal personage in question was Queen Salote of Tonga and she was the lady who became famous in the UK for driving in an open carriage, in the rain, at HM The Queen's coronation.

    The attached pics appeared in quite a few national newspapers and were taken when she visited a children's day centre.

    I also mentioned HM Salote here:
    BBC - WW2 People's War - Victory Celebrations, 8th June 1946

    Now tell me I've posted this before :rolleyes:
     

    Attached Files:

    Owen and Za Rodinu like this.
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Ron great story as ever
     
  17. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    We are discussing, once again, the perils of trusting one's memory :

    I must be as guilty as any other veteran on this forum (if not even guiltier) of duplicating various postings that I have made over the years.

    The reason behind this is actually fairly simple.

    You think of something relating to your war service, wonder if you have mentioned it before, do a search using various key words, find nothing, post the story and then :

    Bang !!!

    Owen or Paul or Andy immediately (and very politely) point out that on such & such a day you posted the identical story and to prove it they immedately provide the link that you lamentedly failed to find :(

    After a while, this inhibits you from posting, as obviously one doesn't like to show classical symptons of senility. but, in the interests of erring on the safe side, I intend to post this little item about Chaplain's records and just hope that if I have previously posted it you will cover your mouth as you smile :)

    During my years of service, once in 1942 whilst still training and once in the line near Cassino I met up with a pair of Jewish Chaplains. I was not to know that they actually recorded the visits until 60 odd years later I visited the AJEX Museum and was shown the actual record card kept by one of these gentlemen and now part of the Museum's records. The Museum has transferred these record cards onto a PC database and using my army number I was soon able to see the actual card (see image below).

    The card provides a reasonable amount of data, including changes in units and home adresses and I now wonder if similar cards were held by the other religions and whether or not they are available for public scrutiny.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Ron far better to post again than not
     
  19. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    AS one of the noted 5% as having actually seen the enemy- it was thus ...

    During the Gothic Line battle - beteen Pieve and Cattolica it might have been - our troop was ahead of the Infantry - and so encountered about 20 odd Paras from 4th regiment who were surrendering - which was most unusual - so Trevor Williams - Commander asked that Harry -our gunner - and I round them up and hand over to the Infantry when they had caught up.

    So I grabbed a Tommy gun - slapped in a magazine - and dismounted - as did Harry - I thought - one very big para started to laugh and spoke to the others who also had a good laugh....so on looking around for the source of all this merriment - there was Harry standing very menacingly - with no magazine fitted and his cleaning brush up the spout !
    We all had good laugh and then giving them a couple of tins of Players - and a million Italian matches - we handed them over to the Seaforths !

    it was not always killing each other and we did have a few laughs !
    Cheers
     
    Owen likes this.
  20. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    For the benefit of both myself and anyone trying to decipher Army records I posted scanned copies of all of my Army records into an Album on my forum profile.

    Below I give a a rough diary of events between October '42 and June '47 that is based both on these records and my remaining personal diaries together with the actual record entries..

    I find it interesting to see that although I was transferred to the RAC in December 1944 and subsequently became a War Substantive Corporal in the 4th QOH, when the Army finally signed me off in 1947 they gave me the rank of Bombadier, which was strictly a Royal Artillery rank.

    Ron’s WW2 Itinerary
    Oct ‘ 42 Bury St.Edmunds, Called up, Thursday Oct 1st, aged 19, and posted to 53rd Primary Training Wing for 6 weeks basic training.
    Nov ’42 Whitby, Yorkshire. Posted to 52nd Anti Aircraft Driver Training Regiment,Royal Artillery to be trained for 12 weeks as a Driver/Wireless Op.
    Feb ’43 Haltwhistle, Northumberland. Posted to 112th L.A.A. Regiment.
    who were just starting a 2 week’s battle training course.
    Mar’43 Hove, Sussex, Congleton, Cheshire. Taken off strength of 112 Rgt and posted to Woolwich, where the overseas draft REAYK assembled.Then home for 7 days embarkation leave.
    Apr’43 Liverpool, S.S.Frankonia, The troopship that took us to North Africa. Algiers. Posted to 49th Light Anti Aircraft Rgt. at Tunis
    May ’43 War ends in North Africa
    June ‘43 Carthage, Guelma, Hammamet. Boarded ship for Sicily.
    July’ 43 Syracuse, Bronte, Adrano, Messina.
    Sep’43 By landing craft to Reggio di Calabria, then onto mainland Italy, Crotone, Bari, Foggia, Termoli.
    Dec ’43 Carovilla, Cantalupo, Agnone, Riccia, Campo Basso, Bagnolia.
    Jan' 44 New Years Day 1944 snowed in at Carovilli.
    Feb ’44 Ortogna, Mignano, Cassino (Regiment responsible for smoke laying beneath the monastery), Caserta, Afragola, San Vittorio.
    Mar ’44 Two weeks in dock in Naples and not a wound to show for it
    Apr’ 44 Vanairo, Vanafro, Ceprano, Lake Trasimeno, Rome.
    Jun '44 Day leave in Rome
    Baschi, Tiber, Frosinino, Taranto. Pulled out of the line. 78th Div goes to Egypt to re-fit and re-form. S.S.Empire Pride The ship that took us to Egypt .
    Jul’ 44 Alexandria,(Egypt), Cairo, Ishmalia, Amiryah. S.S.Homer Lee The American ship that took us back to Italy. Augusta, (Sicily) Assisi (Italy), Vasto, Termoli, Sangro, Pescara, Scarperia, Florence, Firenzuolo.
    Oct ’ 44 Sienna, Tavernelle, Naples, Ancona.
    Nov '44 Firenzuola
    Dec’ 44 The 49th LAA Rgt. disbanded and I was posted to Royal Armoured Corp Training Depot for re-training on tanks
    Mar’ 45 Posted to 4th Queen’s Own Hussars as Loader/Wireless Operator. Gubbio, Ravenna, Rocciano, Rimini.
    Apr’ 45 Comacchio, Traversare, Ferrara, Lugo, Santerno, Reno.
    May’ 45 Venice, Ferndorf,(Austria) (Set up a POW camp for SS Cavalry Division), Lienz, Spittal Paternion, Grafenstein, Trieben,Villach,
    Jul’ 45 Velden, Klagenfurt,Salsburg,
    Aug’45 Munich, Ulm in Germany. (Running staging camp for troops going home on leave under LIAP. LILOP & PYTHON.
    Oct ’45 Peacekeeping between Italians & Yugoslavs, Trieste, October 1945 to January 1947
    Nov’45 Udine, Milan, Brig, Calais, Folkestone,London, (First home leave since Apr’43) Folkestone, Calais, Milan, (Italy) Palmanova, Trieste,
    Jun’46 Milan, Calais, Folkestone, London, (My second home leave)
    Trieste, (Italy) Monfalcone. Victory Celebrations, 8th June 1946
    Mar ’46 Became “A” Sqn Tech Storeman
    May ’46 28 Days home leave (LIAP)
    Oct’ 46 Now full Corporal in charge of “A” Squadron Tech Stores
    Milan, Dieppe, Dover London, Dover, Dieppe, Trieste (Regimental re-union with the Colonel , Winston Churchill in attendance)
    Dec'46 Monfalcone, Our first Post-War New Year's Eve
    Jan’47 Milan, Calais, Dieppe, London, Barnard Castle (Worst winter for years)
    Mar ‘47 Received notification of impending release
    Apr ‘47 Released from RAC Depot, Barnard Castle York and finally demobbed at York !
    Jul ’47 Transferred to Army Reserve
    Dates as per my Army Records
    Joined up, Posted to 53rd Primary Training Wing 1st October 1942
    Bury St. Edmunds
    Posted to 52nd Driver Training Rgt RA, Whiby 11th November 1942
    Posted to 112 Lt AA Rgt.RA Hove 1st February 1943
    Posted to 228 Signal Training Rgt RA, Congleton 11th March 1943
    Embarked Draft REAYK (En route to North Africa) 10Th April 1943
    Disembarked (Algiers) 21th April 1943
    War ended in North Africa 13th May 1943
    Posted to 49th LAA Rgt RA 22nd May 1943
    Tunis
    Embarked Destination unknown 23rd July 1943
    Sicily

    Transferred to 93rd Gen Hospital 17th March 1944
    Naples
    Posted back to 49th LAA 30th March 1944
    Transferred to RAC Training Depot 13th December 1944
    Rieti
    Posted to “E” FDS x (4) 19th March 1945
    Posted to 4th QOH 29Th March 1045
    War ended in Italy 8th May 1945
    Granted 28 days leave in UK 14/10/45 to 10/11/45 26th September 1945
    Detrained Milan ex leave in UK 18th November, 1945
    Mustered as Tech Storeman Class III 15th March, 1946
    Appointed unpaid Actg Lance Cpl 15th March, 1946
    Entrained Villach for leave UK 21st May, 1946
    Granted 28 days leave LIAP 23rd May, 1946
    Detrained Villach after UK leave 24th June, 1946
    Mustered as Tech Storeman Class II 15th June, 1946
    Promoted Unpaid Acting Corporal 20th July, 1946
    Granted pay of L/Corporal 20th July, 1946
    Entrained Villach for Regimental Duties (Churchill Dinner) 15th October, 1946
    Granted WS rank of Corporal 18th October, 1946
    Passed Driving Test Group I Vehicles 10th December, 1946
    Entrained Villach for UK PYTHON 17thJanuary,1947
    Arrived back in UK to be de-mobbed 18th January, 1947
    Received Notification of Impending Release 19th March, 1947
    Medically examined Pending Release 29th March, 1947
    Released from RAC depot at Barnard Castle 11th April, 1947
    Demobbed at York same day
    Home address: 105 Manor Rd., Stoke Newington, London 12th April, 1947
    Transferred to the Army Reserves 22nd July, 1947
    Taken off Strength as W/Bdr RA 22nd August 1953
     

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