As part of the competition for a "Ural Bomber" Dornier submitted this prototype which was never put into production as Kesselring cancelled the development of the Heavy Bombers in favor of Tactical bombers and Fighters. Dornier Do.19 Notice its similarity to the Short Stirling, at least at the fron of the fuselage.
My copy of Hooton's Phoenix Triumphant is in the car and it's too cold to go get it at this time of night LMAO but IIRC the Do 19 was a turkey; it turned out to be VERY underpowered. Most of the (brief) netsources mention that the Do 19 project foundered because of Wever's death, but the V1 machine was such a disappointment that Wever let the "Ural Bomber" wind down slowly just before his death. The engine development restrictions imposed on German aviation in the 1920s by the Allies cast a VERY long shadow through the 1930s.
Wevers untimely death was perhaps an under-rated turning point in WW2, as after his death the German heavy bomber project also died a death. Very fortunate for the Allied cause. The Allies saw the advantages of possessing heavy bombers. Tom
Not really - remember, Wever didn't JUST advocate a "Ural Bomber" he advocated a fully-balanced Luftwaffe. So it wasn't a case of "just" Wever's long-range bomber project versus Udet's/Jeschonnek's divebombers... IF Wever had lived - the idiot died when he failed carry out normal preflight checks on his personal He70 transport, a VERY basic mistake - Germany would have started WWII with a Luftwaffe with a developed long-range heavy bomber force...but small because of the Luftwaffe's other committments, and the vital tactical support medium bombers and dive bombers vital to Blitzkrieg in the shape of "flying artillery" would have formed a smaller percentage of the available numbers with funding diverted to the "Ural Bomber" project. Thus Wever's living to shape the future of the Luftwaffe would have actually led to a WEAKER air force....!
I'm not quite sure that the Germans could have had the proper air force needed no matter what road they took - the fact that the war started in 1939 showed that it was too soon for the Luftwaffe and especially the Kriegsmarine, as we have touched in the Kriegsmarine thread.
Gotthard, I have to agree with you. The Dornier Do 17 (Flying Pencil) although a good plane to fly was obsolete at the start of WW2 and yet still made up 25% of the front line bombers used in the Battle of Britain. What 4 engined bombers Germany possessed were used mostly as Atlantic and arctic Reconnaissance planes, with a light bomb load for any attacking possibilties encountered. Regards Tom
Three twin engined machines could be produced for every two four-engined ones and Goring took the simple view the 'the Fuhrer will not ask how big the bombers are, but how many there are.'
The Dornier Do 17 (Flying Pencil) although a good plane to fly was obsolete at the start of WW2 and yet still made up 25% of the front line bombers used in the Battle of Britain ...only because the Ju88 was delayed coming into service.
I'm not quite sure that the Germans could have had the proper air force needed no matter what road they took - the fact that the war started in 1939 showed that it was too soon for the Luftwaffe and especially the Kriegsmarine, as we have touched in the Kriegsmarine thread. Phylo, I think that Gotthard's quote is close to the truth. Tom
Certainly war started earlier than the German high command planned - but their schedules didn't match Hitler's "political realities" as the Polish crisis ramped up through mid-1939. But the LW's major resource planning decisions had been made - or rather sidestepped by Wever's death - whereas the lingering fight over the Z Plan vs. u-boat warfare was still skirmishing. The Ju88 was due to come into service nearly a year earlier than it did - replacing the Do17 in the recce bomber/schnellbomber role...but didn't, it only arrived on the 1st of September 1939, and production was painfully slow for months after that - Goering having been earlier assured that production figures of 300 a month was possible. IF delivery had been at the rate promised, the Do17 would have been replaced by the start of the Polish Campaign, removing the limitations of its short operational range and small bombload from that 25% of the LW's tactical bomber force.
I'm not quite sure that the Germans could have had the proper air force needed no matter what road they took - the fact that the war started in 1939 showed that it was too soon for the Luftwaffe and especially the Kriegsmarine, as we have touched in the Kriegsmarine thread. In 1937, Germany produced a total of 5,606 machines, of which 2,651 were front line combat aircraft, this wasn't enough. Compare this to 1944 when Speer lead industry produced nearly 40,000. On the 3rd of September 1939 there were only 2,577 aircrews available. The bombers were only able to operate at 32.5% of full strength, and the fighters at 83.5% Maybe manpower and training (which Hitler didn't care about) were massive factors. Stats from Stephen Bungay
In 1937, Germany produced a total of 5,606 machines, of which 2,651 were front line combat aircraft, this wasn't enough. Compare this to 1944 when Speer lead industry produced nearly 40,000. On the 3rd of September 1939 there were only 2,577 aircrews available. The bombers were only able to operate at 32.5% of full strength, and the fighters at 83.5% Maybe manpower and training (which Hitler didn't care about) were massive factors. Stats from Stephen Bungay Yes, fully trained pilots where very rare, the schools being a mere shadow of themselves by 1944. Also Fuel and trained fitters also a big factor is servicableilty so even though the factories where still knocking them out they where making little difference. Youve got to ask yourself how effective you think the 4 engine heavies actually where, before you can argue the case for a more stratagicly balanced Luftwaffe. I guess we can only take the allies model as a guide. As a Aircraft freak turned tankie I cant help but wondering if the 4 merlins of lancaster would have been much better employed in 4 Centurions. I dont know. Certiinally I think Harris had to much influance. Kev
I think the Merlin Engines make a wonderful sound when pulling fighters or bombers around the sky. I wonder what kind of sound one or more would have made coupled up to a tank? Regards Tom
By 1944 it didnt matter how many machines Speer could produce, there was no fuel to train pilots and precious few experienced pilots to train them even if there was the fuel. Which just goes to show that men are more important than machines!!!
I think the Merlin Engines make a wonderful sound when pulling fighters or bombers around the sky. I wonder what kind of sound one or more would have made coupled up to a tank? Regards Tom Unfortuantly nowhere as nice as a full 2000hp supercharged one. YouTube - Centurion Battle Tank
Kfz, Thanks for the link, didn't sound too good to me, but there again I am a little biased after hearing plenty of Merlins and Packhards etc at Duxford over the years! Regards Tom
