Disgusted...

Discussion in 'General' started by RainDancer, Apr 27, 2005.

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  1. RainDancer

    RainDancer Junior Member

    I was at the local park with my friend the other day. We were leaning on a tree and she noticed something. We climbed up the tree a little bit to see it. There was a large black swastika carved into the tree! I found a rock and we both took turns scratching it away. I was disgusted. I just hope that the person who did it wasn't from my school. Because the bus stops at the park and all the people pass by that tree on their way home. What's your take on this?
     
  2. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Unfortunately, there are six-year-olds of all ages all over the world. Juveniles (and I use the word for its mentality) who do that, do so to shock and outrage. Vandals are people who believe that nothing in the world is better than himself, in the face of all the evidence otherwise. Consequently, they destroy anything better than themselves, or damage it, which means that they are aiming at 98 percent of the world's production in every arena, from arts to zoetropes. Committing vandalism makes them -- in their minds at least -- figures of importance, objects fear, attention, and respect. The same twisted reasoning is seen in the teenagers of all ages who join neo-Nazi organization and waste their entire lives in the nonsense of rallies, confrontations, and paranoia. Just remember that if the guy who did the misdeed had to confront a bunch of angry people face-to-face, he wouldn't last two minutes. And many of these guys, when caught or nailed for these and greater misdeeds, usually break down and plead guilty.
     
  3. Wise1

    Wise1 There We Are Then

    I would be willing to bet that if you confronted the person who did it and asked them explain what the symbol stood for they proabably would not have a clue.

    Thats the problem these days, too many young people just dont understand its origin and what it stood for, maybe if they did it would make them think twice.
     
  4. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Originally posted by Lee Wisener@Apr 27 2005, 06:25 PM
    I would be willing to bet that if you confronted the person who did it and asked them explain what the symbol stood for they proabably would not have a clue.




    Or then again, you might be surprised if they told you it was an ancient good fortune symbol used by many civilisations across the globe going way back into the mists of time!!!! :D

    For only 26 years of it's thousands of years of history has the swastika actually represented something abhorrant. There is a movement at the present which is attempting to restore the symbol back to it's original meaning. I'm fully behind them. It'd be a shame if these 26 years tarnished it forever.

    (You can still find swastikas in some Hindu temples today. They, thankfully, haven't let history tarnish it's symbolism !)

    Dave.
     
  5. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    Croonaert

    Or then again, you might be surprised if they told you it was an ancient good fortune symbol used by many civilisations across the globe going way back into the mists of time!!!! For only 26 years of it's thousands of years of history has the swastika actually represented something abhorrant. You can still find swastikas in some Hindu temples today. They, thankfully, haven't let history tarnish it's symbolism


    I'm sure you are right, but realistically I doubt that people who use swastikas as graffiti have any motive other than to shock.

    A Hindu, who regarded all life as sacred, would be unlikely to carve it into a tree.

    For the Christian, going back to medieval times, the swastika was a broken cross, a symbol of the demonic forces, which is probably why the Nazis chose it.

    For the Finnish and Latvian airforces in the 1920's until 1945, it simply represented a turning propeller.

    RAINDANCER
    Congratulations for making a stand against evil!

    Adrian
     
  6. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Originally posted by adrian roberts@Apr 27 2005, 11:48 PM
    For the Christian, going back to medieval times, the swastika was a broken cross, a symbol of the demonic forces, which is probably why the Nazis chose it.




    Yes, It was used in Christian culture also, but I'm unsure of it's representation of a "broken cross" . It has a "male" and "female" version and , in Christianity, is a neo-pagan symbol (another one "stolen" by the Christians!!!) representing the sun and the forces of "light". The way that the swastika "ran" depicted whether it drew the forces of "light" or the forces of "dark" (Guess which one the Nazis chose - and the reason why they chose it lies within this - nothing to do with Christianity!). It pre-dates the "cross" symbol by many centuries (a fact acknowledged by the early Christians) and ,as far as I've read, has never really represented a "broken" cross symbolising evil in Christianity, apart from in the opinion of one or two 20th century historians (see how many Victorian Christmas cards depict swastikas, for example. The symbol can also be found on the sites of some early Christian churches).

    Other variations of the "hackenkreuz", "Sonnenrad", or "Swastika" (which, itself is a Sanskrit term!) - in a non-political sense- can be encountered in the flag of the Isle-of-Man, the Divisional badge for the (British) 21st Division 1914-18, a version on the 75th Division "key", on the headdress of the "Screaming Indian" of some fliers of "l'Escadrille Lafayette" during WW1, etc., etc.,

    I agree, by the way that the vandals would have used it because it would shock (mind you, it's less offensive than some things they could carve) and probably wouldn't really understand it's meaning, but the sooner that this symbol is restored back to it's original meanings, the better. If everyone gets uptight and automatically associates it with the Nazis every time one is seen, then the idiots will continue using it for these shock tactics for ever. When people start to ignore it and not get offended by it and start to dissacociate it with the nazis, then it'll stop being misused.

    Dave.
     
  7. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    I know a lady who originated in the Ukraine. As a teenager, she was snet to Nazi Germany to work during WWII. After the war, she met her husband, a British soldier, in Germany and came to this country to live.

    Here in Britain, she trained as a nurse and worked in the National Health Service for over 40 years.

    She is an interesting person to talk to on any topic and when in the right mood to do so will speak about what it was like to be in Nazi Germany in WWII. For this reason, some of the local kids got the idea in their heads that she is an old Nazi - nothing is further from the truth, although she does not condemn everything German out of hand. Anyway, this brainless 11 year old carved a swastika in her gate post and he got a big shock when the police called to discuss his criminal damage and racial harassment.

    Plenty of brainless morons around then!
     
  8. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    [​IMG]

    On the occasion of our first visit to Bali, Indonesia, I was astonished to find what I thought be the Nazi swastika adorning the island's many temples. Investigating, on coming home it all became clear that it was not the Nazi symbol (2) but an ancient one (1) employed to this day by Eastern religions. While Indonesia is predominately a Moslem country, the population of Bali is mainly Hindu, as the island was at one time part of the the ancient Indian empire.

    In Nazi Germany the Hakenkreuz, with its oblique arms turned clockwise, became the national symbol. In 1910 a poet and nationalist ideologist Guido von List had suggested the swastika as a symbol for all anti-Semitic organizations; and when the National Socialist Party was formed in 1919-20, it adopted it. On Sept. 15, 1935, the black swastika on a white circle with a red background became the national flag of Germany. This use of the swastika ended in World War II with the German surrender in May 1945.

    Anyway, whatever of the two symbols is on the tree, it was most surely carved by an anti-Semite or a neo-Nazi. It is sad that such sick people never seem to learn!

    Gerry
     
  9. Compo

    Compo Member

    Originally posted by Gerry Chester@Apr 28 2005, 12:10 PM
    [​IMG]


    Gerry
    [post=33692]Quoted post[/post]

    Gerry, I had always heard that the symbol as in 1 was good luck in the far east and the symbol as in 2 was bad luck. The Nazis chose the wrong one. Anyone else heard that?

    Regds Bill
     
  10. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Originally posted by Compo@Apr

    Gerry, I had always heard that the symbol as in 1 was good luck in the far east and the symbol as in 2 was bad luck. The Nazis chose the wrong one. Anyone else heard that?

    Bill, the word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit 'svastika' meaning "conducive to well-being," hence a symbol of prosperity and good fortune. If it is considered to be a symbol of bad luck, most likely it is because to some cultures it represents evil in the form of Kali, the goddess of the night - made even more so by the Nazis who adopted it!

    Regards, Gerry
     
  11. Wise1

    Wise1 There We Are Then

    Thanks for that Gerry, most interesting.
     
  12. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

  13. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Originally posted by morse1001@Apr 28 2005, 10:57 PM
    Here is something that is surprising!




    Why is it surprising? As I've been attempting to say, the symbol predates nazism by 1000's of years and has been used in most cultures one way or another. (The Romans, for example, used it in both it's "male" and "female" formats together on the same decorations. Much evidence of this can be found on mosaic floorings in villas found in britain). Judaism is another user of the symbol as you can see (Though you don't seem to find the "mobile" swastika (as used by the Nazis, Indians and Native Americans) as commonly as the basic pairing.

    Dave.
     
  14. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Originally posted by Gerry Chester@Apr 28 2005, 05:10 PM
    Anyway, whatever of the two symbols is on the tree, it was most surely carved by an anti-Semite or a neo-Nazi.


    I disagree. Most likely carved by a kid with no idea who wants to gain a reaction - (hey, it's worked hasn't it!!! :huh:) . Anti-Semites and Neo-Nazis are a hell of a lot rarer than teenagers who want to shock or go against the authorities!!! :D

    Dave.
     
  15. nolanbuc

    nolanbuc Senior Member

    All tht I can say about things like this is it's a shame that so many people refuse to learn the expensive lessons that history teaches. :(
     
  16. GUMALANGI

    GUMALANGI Senior Member

    Originally posted by Gerry Chester@Apr 28 2005, 05:10 PM
    [​IMG]

    While Indonesia is predominately a Moslem country, the population of Bali is mainly Hindu, as the island was at one time part of the the ancient Indian empire.
    Gerry

    [post=33692]Quoted post[/post]

    Hi there Gerry

    Little correction here,...

    Bali was never been part of Indian Empire, Bali was part of Ancient great Hindu Empire base at East Java called Majapahit. And Bali was the last stronghold of the Empire against islam influence end of 14th century.
    But the fact is Indonesia, was very close to Indian Kingdoms, seems every trend from India was followed by Indonesia, Prior to Hindus it was Budhism, and lastly Islam, brought by Indian Moslem traders from Gujarat.

    Regards
    Gumalangi
     
  17. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by CROONAERT+Apr 29 2005, 02:29 AM-->(CROONAERT @ Apr 29 2005, 02:29 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-morse1001@Apr 28 2005, 10:57 PM
    Here is something that is surprising!




    Why is it surprising? As I've been attempting to say, the symbol predates nazism by 1000's of years and has been used in most cultures one way or another. (The Romans, for example, used it in both it's "male" and "female" formats together on the same decorations. Much evidence of this can be found on mosaic floorings in villas found in britain). Judaism is another user of the symbol as you can see (Though you don't seem to find the "mobile" swastika (as used by the Nazis, Indians and Native Americans) as commonly as the basic pairing.

    Dave.
    [post=33728]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    The swaztikas only appear in 2nd century synagouges and even then it is only within the palestinian branch of judaism and not helenic judaism.

    Also, the swaztika which represents so much for Modern jews is not normally associated with the jewish relgion.
     
  18. Wise1

    Wise1 There We Are Then

    Super bit of info there but I suspect we are best leaving this for the time being ;)
     
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