Died on a HospitaL ship?

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by jmcq, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    My great uncle was fatally wounded at Tobruk (2nd Black Watch) 20/11/41.
    His records have a entry
    WD telegram 20/12/41 "reported missing (believed died of wounds)" ,
    then the next entry has "confirmed Died of Wounds WD Egypt".
    At the side there is a note about a cipher message dated 1/1/42 " Telegram from PROEMEAS, Liverpool, received 10/3/42"

    Could it mean that he died from wounds aboard a ship called the Proemeas and if so was it a hospital ship ?
    He has a grave in Knightsbridge War cemetery, Libya.
     
  2. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello,

    What was your great uncle's name and what was the date given for his death?

    Regards,

    Vitellino
     
  3. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Can you confirm the spelling of Proemeas, please?
    Roy
     
  4. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    He was Sgt J McQuarrie 2nd B.W. D.o.W. 21/11/1941. and the spelling is proemeas or proewcas, (hand writing is small and hastily done)
     
  5. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

  6. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    Seemingly a mix up regarding tanks and delays caused a lot of the 2nd BW causalities that day (21/11/41)

    From " Australia in the 1939-1945 War"

    The sally force's difficult forming-up outside the perimeter was achieved without interference from the enemy; the roar of supporting gunfire and enemy counter-bombardment from the 23rd Brigade's false strike drowned the clatter of its assembly. Zero hour for the infantry to advance in the most formidable attack ever made by the Tobruk force was 6.30 a.m. On the left of the sally port and not far out was Butch, which had to be neutralised or the route to Tiger would be murderously enfiladed. It was to be taken by the 2/King's Own. The centre strike, by the 2/Black Watch, was to be directed at Tiger through the smaller outpost Jill. The left prong was to reach out to Tugun, far to the left flank, an operation assigned to the 2/Queen's.

    At 6.20 a.m. a bombardment of Butch began. Within 10 minutes the 2/King's Own supported by a squadron of the 7th Royal Tank Regiment (19 Matildas) announced its capture. They reported that the enemy, of whom there were 30 dead, were German and they sent back 10 live ones to prove it. And it soon became evident that this was no isolated pocket. A region thought to lie along the boundary of two Italian divisions and expected to be defended mainly by cross-fire from a few strong-points proved to be a German defensive area held in some density by unyielding and determined defenders. Most of these had moved in six days before. Moreover the localities called by code names and delineated in the plans accompanying the operation orders proved to be parts of a more extensive, unmapped and well - concealed defensive system, interlaced with unmarked minefields. Thus an area just to the north of Butch which was not one of the operation's objectives remained in enemy hands for several days.

    At 6.30 a.m., sustained by a regimental tradition reaching back for more than 200 years, the infantrymen of the 2/Black Watch's assault companies stood up, all to face death, half to die. The tanks were not there, except for a squadron of cruisers not to be employed in the main assault. The time required to get them over the bridges crossing the anti-tank ditch had been underestimated. The infantry commanders made the right decision : to press on alone, making best use of what protection the timed artillery program would provide.

    The action developed into a muddle redeemed by great leadership an d utmost bravery. Jill, treated in the plan as a small detached post to b e easily smothered in the advance of the leading company, proved a strong locality. Each effort of the Black Watch to get forward was murderously cut down until the lately arrived infantry tanks came across from Butch with a company of the 2/King's Own following. When Jill had been overrun, "there was nothing left of [the leading company of the 2/Black Watch ] to carry on to Tiger".

    When the tanks of the 4th Royal Tank Regiment were assembled on the battlefield, they were unable to proceed because of a minefield to the west and north of Tiger. They were told to make "merry hell", which they did, with a resounding accompaniment from the guns of "A/E" Battery. The defence seemed momentarily neutralised and Captain Armitage, who had nosed his armoured command post forward, reported at 8.30 a.m. that he was "on the back of Tiger ", which comprised 1,000 yards of infantry positions dug flush with the ground. The Black Watch were too extended, however, to make the concerted rush needed to exploit a fleeting opportunity, but continued to probe forward to the stirring but melancholy skirling of bagpipes.
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    IMHO "PROEMEAS" will be a code word for the originating unit sending the telegram - likely either 3rd Echelon in Egypt or more likely the Missing Personnel Unit based in Wavertree, Liverpool. You see lots of other strange code words at the commencement of telex messages in the Missing Personnel files various members have posted on the forum.

    The "WD Egypt" part of the other message means Western Desert Egypt.

    Knightsbrige (Box) War cemetery is just outside the perimeter of fortress Tobruk so I doubt he was evacuated by sea and died whilst at sea. If that was the case he would either have been buried at sea or likely in a cemetery in the Alexandria area if he was still aboard the ship when it arrived in Alexandria.

    Steve Y
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    jmcq likes this.
  8. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello,

    I've checked him out on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website and have downloaded the concentration form, used when men were brought into the main cemetery form smaller cemeteries or even individual burials. He was brought in from Map Reference 42134202. If you look at the concentration forms for the other 14 men from 2 Black Watch, (see below) all of whom except one were killed on 21 November 1941, you will see that most of them came in from individual locations.

    doc3965293.JPG doc3965012.JPG doc3965295.JPG doc3965407.JPG doc3966300.JPG
    I don't have a map of this part of North Africa, unfortunately.

    Regards,

    Vitellino
     
    jmcq likes this.
  9. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    Hi Tullybrone,
    I agree that the "PROMEAS/PROWCAS" probably is the missing personnel unit re the Liverpool address. And the point about being not buried at sea is probably right too. I always thought as he D.o.W. that it was in a hospital or CCs. But as the map refs, (as vitellino shows,) of recoveries are scattered about and not altogether as I would imagine a CCS or hospital would bury casualties together then he must have died and been initially buried near where he was injured.
    Thanks to all for the help, I must try for a relevant map sometime.
     
  10. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    I hope you manage to find a map and pinpoint where he was buried.

    Vitellino
     
    jmcq likes this.

Share This Page