Died In India - Buried In Malaysia

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by Chris Basey, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. Chris Basey

    Chris Basey Senior Member

    I am researching a relative who served in the Royal Berkshire Regiment through the Burma Campaign and was eventually killed in a road accident in February 1946.

    The telegram advising his death says 'India' but his grave is in the Taiping War Cemetery in Malaysia. There is documentation to say that he was originally buried in Malacca Christian Cemetery but moved a year or so after because of 'difficulties in arranging permanent care and maintenance of the grave by the Imperial War Graves Commission'.

    CWGC website mentions that Taiping was used for burials of men from other areas but India seems a long, long way to transport a body!

    His service record has been applied for but, in the meantime, does anyone have knowledge of similar instances or can explain?

    Many thanks
     
  2. mattgibbs

    mattgibbs Senior Member

    Perhaps the CWG Cemetery in Malaya was thought to be the nearest place. Don't forget they would probably have flown the coffins in, there may have also been political reasons related to the independance of India that is not disclosed?
    Malaya, before it became Malaysia, was of course part of the Empire.
    Regard
    MG
     
  3. Chris Basey

    Chris Basey Senior Member

    Thanks for your reply - it now looks as if he died in Malaya which makes more sense.
     
  4. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    As a newcomer to WW2T I`ve spent some time looking through many of the old threads related to my quest; the research into my Grandfather`s service with the 379/101st HAA - Royal Artillery.

    This rather old thread was of immediate interest to me as my Grandfather`s service record indicates he died in India, but I know he was buried at Mandalay in Burma before eventually being moved to the CWGC at Taukkyan.

    I am at a lost to understand why, if he died in India, would he be buried in Burma. Has anyone else seen instances of this or can offer an explanation based on their own research? He died 24.3.45 so I would have thought political reasons wouldn`t have been the reason. Could it just be sloppy record keeping and the fact that the Telegrams appear to have come via India to the RA at Rugby and someone in the office has just put two and two together?

    This has puzzled me for some time?

    Regards,

    John
     
  5. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    John,

    You will find that Burma came under India as far as command structure is concerned & as such it was the it was HQ for the Burma Command its boss of course being Mountbatten.

    Taukkyan was not opened until 1951 when iy became impracticable for the CWGc to maintain the cemetary. It if just outside of Rangoon (Yangon).

    if you do not already have it, you may be able to get a photo of his grave if you go to the cemetary pics & lok for the sticky thread on Taukkyan.

    Hope thie helps

    Regards

    simon
     
  6. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    As Simon rightly says the two areas are often viewed on documents as being one theatre.

    Burma was controlled by the British India Command, so some clerks may well of placed India as the theatre in question on service records and other paperwork.

    In reverse to this situation I have seen men who fought at Imphal and Kohima, which are both within Indian borders, stated as having fought in the Burma theatre. All are technically correct, although somewhat confusing to the layman.

    Steve
     
  7. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    you can try to find out more from unit war diaries. Those for 1945:

    WO 172/7459 - Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiments: 101 Regt. - 1945 Jan.- Apr., June - Aug
     
  8. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    Gentlemen,

    Thank you all for your responses and explanations.

    It is indeed very confusing for the layman like me, and of course seems to add mystery where there is perhaps none.

    For interest on his casualty card it states:

    Date:
    26 March 45

    Reported by:
    Cable from Secechelon (that`s how it`s written) India 24 March 45. 2161 Cas.

    Casualty:
    20 March 45 placed on dangerously ill list, Dysentery Amoebic.

    Then later it states further:

    Date:
    3 April 45

    Reported by:
    Cable from 02E Jhansi D| 1.4.45. 2768 Cas rec`d 3.4.45

    Casualty:
    Died 24 Mar 45 in India from Gas Gangrene left thigh (Enquiries proceeding)

    Eventually, in a further cable from Jhansi, it states that his death was caused by disease entracted under active service in Tropical conditions.

    From a personal point of view I knew he had dysentery for a while as this is mentioned in personal letters, but it was intially hard for me to understand how this led to gangrene. That said, from the research I have done, it seems Jungle sores and scratches could lead to all sorts of problems.

    I believe Jhansi would only be the location of the hospital dealing with his records as I know he only ever went to a field hospital for treatment (but don`t know its location).

    Secechelon is also written on an earlier part of his medical record as:2 Ech. Forgive a novice question, but what does that refer to? I`ve done some Googling but can`t find the answer.

    Well Gents, thank you all again. For your information someone has kindly supplied me with a photograph of his grave at Taukkyan and another kind gentlemen is going to help me with the war diaries.

    Many thanks,

    John
     
  9. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Secechelon = Sec Echelon

    The references posted refer to India - is there a reference to service in Burma?

    Will have a re-read of the thread to see if I've missed something.

    Pete

    Ok, get it now - you need to look at unit history to see where they were when he became ill, but air defences in Northern India looks likely. I dont know a specific reason for his being moved, but Jhansi was always a centre of resistance to the Empire, even the death of the Rhanee did not dampen its independent fervour, so I'm guessing that as independence was on the horizon he was moved to Malaya as the cwgc foresaw difficulties with maintenance.

    Pete
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    I was talking with a veteran Signals officer at a reunion dinner and he told me that Jhansi was the communication centre for messages sent to and from the Burma theatre.

    So I think O2E and 2nd echelon India cable are the same term and they refer to communication signals/messages from the field of battle to the central base (Jhansi), about the casualties injuries, health or possible capture, deemed missing or death.

    That I am sure is roughly the explanation for the entries on the service records.
     
  11. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    101 HAA were in Burma with 33 Indian Corps at that time.

    Pete
     
  12. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

  13. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    How come I can never find these things for my own stuff??

    Orkney Image Library - 101st Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment

    Havent read it in too much detail, but it looks more detailed than the war diary.

    Pete

    John - was your grandfather from the Orkneys?

    Pete,

    Thanks for all your input. I was aware of this link and have most of the book - Ubique 101 HAA noted on the link you quote , but it`s a bit sketchy in parts. Even so, I`m pretty certain he was in Burma when he became ill. Hopefully the war diaries will ascertain this for sure. Someone has kindly offered to copy these for me.

    For reference he was from North Devon.

    Thanks for your help.

    John
     
  14. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    Hi John,

    I was talking with a veteran Signals officer at a reunion dinner and he told me that Jhansi was the communication centre for messages sent to and from the Burma theatre.

    So I think O2E and 2nd echelon India cable are the same term and they refer to communication signals/messages from the field of battle to the central base (Jhansi), about the casualties injuries, health or possible capture, deemed missing or death.

    That I am sure is roughly the explanation for the entries on the service records.

    That`s very helpful. I was aware that Jhansi was one of the main centres of medical care during the war (and still is I believe), but not that it was such an important militart HQ, so this makes complete sense. After your response I have dug deaper into what the 2nd Echelon was and have found the following explanation from a reeanctors forum:

    ALFSEA (Allied Land Forces South East Asia) was formed in late 1944 to replace 11 Army Group in command of all ground forces in SEAC (South East Asia Command). SEAC was disbanded on 30/11/46 and HQ ALFSEA then became HQ SEALF (South East Asia Land Forces). During it's period as ALFSEA it commanded allied units and formations (US, Chinese, etc.) as well as Commonwealth ones. Therefore it commanded all the land forces engaged in the reconquest of Burma and the re-occupation of south-east Asia after the Japanese surrender. However, the 2 Echelon was a separate and subordinate HQ, based in India, that dealt with the administration and organization of what was a massive formation. Jhansi was of course, over a thousand miles from the front.

    There is more on Wikipedia.
    HTML:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Army_Group#Allied_Land_Forces_South_East_Asia
    I can see what this all points to now. My Grandfather probably died in Burma and all the related cables were coming back to the RA at Rugby via Jhansi. Hopefully the war diary for the unit might clarify his place of death.

    Thanks everyone for putting me on the right track.

    Regards,

    John
     

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