Did any one record 'Conspiracies' last Sunday ? It's a Sky one program, last weeks was about 'Did the Nazi's land in Britain' ? I really wanted to see this program, but unfortunately I missed it
Originally posted by noe@Jul 29 2005, 05:21 PM Did any one record 'Conspiracies' last Sunday ? It's a Sky one program, last weeks was about 'Did the Nazi's land in Britain' ? I really wanted to see this program, but unfortunately I missed it [post=37036]Quoted post[/post] Apparently it did not go to air. It was dropped due to current world affairs and will be shown at a later date. The Aussies have inside info on everything.
Originally posted by sapper@Jul 31 2005, 04:49 AM It never did happen, no Nazis landed here. PERIOD! Sapper [post=37079]Quoted post[/post] Hi Sapper, Do you watch this Danny Wallace's "CONSPIRACIES" series? Apparently it was on Lockerbie a couple of weeks ago. Does he do any other WW2 (Hypothetical's) or is it just a nutter's programme? (All statements and no proof)
Yeah, I watched the one about lockerbie, Interesting more than anything ! So the Nazi epersode never aired in the end ?
Legends and Fallacies! Nazi landings in Britain? This is only my opinion! WW2 is a life time away, because of the scale of the conflict and that it was world wide war of unprecedented ferocity, lots of legends arise, people write stories, often carried away with their own imagination...It is rather like propaganda ...repeated enough times, and it surrounds itself with a veil of truth, when in fact, it is "claptrap" To illustrate this phenomena, if you were to read many of the books about D Day, the war in Normandy, or Arnhem, or the drive to Bremen, you will probably come across the fact that authors use each others material, subsequently, at the back of the book will be found the “Sources” What happens is that some writers want, or have a need to “Colour” the subject to satisfy their own prejudices, the need to sell in their own country! Or indeed, their political leanings, this gets copied and the legends get twisted, and over a long period of time, become quite remarkable as a “Legend” Self-aggrandisement, the need to boost ones own ego! I am sure, play a major part in the creation of “Legends” Now, I cannot say with complete truthfulness, that no Nazi’s landed in Britain. But I am sure that having lived through that period, both in the “Blitz” and through the action from the beaches of Normandy onwards, some elements of a Nazi landing would have surfaced. In fact none have, to carry this argument further. Under the thirty year rule, the information about any war time battles. events, operations. Whatever, would have been made available to the press, and the general public back in 1975, and being the press are ever eager for a headline, those secret papers, as soon as released, would have been poured over for the slightest inkling of a scandal, or of a story. Wartime Legends are Legion! Few of them have the ring of truth, or are able to stand up to the hard light of exposure. Interesting though, that Legends still arise! Where would we be without them? Where would our press be with a little “Story” now and again. Brian.
I read a newspaper report written ahead of the broadcast of this programme. It apparently features a man who was on sentry duty further down the coast & claimed to have seen in the distance signs of a battle. Corpses in German uniform were later washed ashore. Supposedly an invasion attempt was beaten off but Churchill suppressed reports of it for fear of damaging morale. Why on earth the programme makers believe that news that a German invasion attempt had been defeated would damage British morale I have no idea. The newspaper report was sceptical, quoting a historian who'd interviewed the witness as suggesting that he might be the sort of person who'd exaggerate something for publicity. It also pointed out that the alleged location was an unlikely place for an invasion, somewhere in Norfolk I think. It did suggest that a raid on a nearby radar station was a possible explanation but there didn't seem to be much evidence of even that.
I apologise for not being able to quote with regards to Sappers post "No Nazi's landed here period". Rudolph Hess landed here, cant see why others didnt! Im not big on conspiracy theories but was there not a botched rescue attempt by the Nazi SS to rescue Hess when he was imprisoned in Wales? S'pose we better wait for the Queen to release the paperwork on this one!
All secret papers are revealed under the 30 year rule, there was nothingin those papers,there would be noreason why it should be suppressed anyone see flying saucers about? Sapper
Originally posted by Gibbo@Jul 31 2005, 12:30 PM . It also pointed out that the alleged location was an unlikely place for an invasion, somewhere in Norfolk I think. [post=37109]Quoted post[/post] Funny that should be mentioned actually. An old boy who used to drink in a pub where I worked when I was on leave used to enjoy telling me stories of his own army experiences during WW2. One of these included a reference to a possible German landing/raid in Norfolk where he claims to be part of the "clear-up" operation afterwards and says that he saw the removal of several German corpses. How true this is or not, I don't know (I know that stories get "jazzed up" on the retelling to make them more interesting, especially to civilians - but I wasn't a civilian then and most of his other stories could be corroberated and were pretty much straight to the point). Dave.
Myths and Legends of the Second World War clears up the "botched German invasion" pretty effectively. Didn't happen.
The story got a full and well-reasearched airing on a recent Radio 4 documentary. The conclusion was that the 'invasion' never happened and that the supposed eyewitnesses had been confused by other happenings (training exercises etc) at the time. I forget what it was called but it might still be available on the BBC website 'Listen Again' feature if you're lucky. As other correspondents have said it is one of those wartime myths that resurfaces every few years and attracts a flurry of media attention on a 'slow news day'.
Kat-aha but then again wasn't it a 'duplicate' Hess? And what about Martin Bormann who apparently died in the Home Counties in the 1960's, having been rescued by the British from Berlin at the end of the war? The list goes on...
Originally posted by Mark Hone@Aug 2 2005, 11:26 AM Kat-aha but then again wasn't it a 'duplicate' Hess? And what about Martin Bormann who apparently died in the Home Counties in the 1960's, having been rescued by the British from Berlin at the end of the war? The list goes on... [post=37169]Quoted post[/post] Nigel West effectively slices and dices the "black bag" job on Bormann in "Counterfeit Spies." Bormann was shot by Russian troops while fleeing Berlin. They found the body in 1972, and recent DNA tests showed it was him, all right. That only begs the question: who did Ladislas Farago really meet when he claimed to have interviewed Martin Bormann in Argentina in 1970? As for Hess..."Myths and Legends" covers that one. Dr. Thomas's theories about a duplicate Hess dying in Spandau are pretty well discredited. Hess being a nutter is true, though.
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Aug 1 2005, 04:05 PM Myths and Legends of the Second World War clears up the "botched German invasion" pretty effectively. Didn't happen. [post=37140]Quoted post[/post] Well, going off the pedigree of the guy's other tales and knowing the type of person he was personally, I, for one, am prepared to retain an open mind about the Norfolk incident unless it can be proved conclusively that it didn't happen (and if the "Myths and Legends..." that you refer to is the same as the one I think you mean, then I don't buy it as conclusive) (He described it more of a small commando raid size assault rather than an "invasion attempt", by the way) Dave.
Originally posted by Mark Hone@Aug 2 2005, 03:26 PM And what about Martin Bormann who apparently died in the Home Counties in the 1960's, having been rescued by the British from Berlin at the end of the war?[post=37169]Quoted post[/post] OPJB by any chance? <_< Dave.
We get to hear these outlandish legends every so ofetn...much of it pure imagination or the dreams of someone that wanted it to happen. It could go something like this. Hitler did not really commit suicide in the bunker in Berlin, Oh No! He was spirited away by the special forces, and died here in captivity, Now! who is going to prove me wrong? yet when you tell the real truth about the legends. it is treated as false...Why? Because someone readit in a book! ..So there!... It must be true I read it in black and white! So let us take what the Americans called an easy landing. that of Sword Beach. Sword Beach was in fact, the most heavily defended part of the whole coast of Normandy. With several huge defensive postions falling back into the interior, with the likes of Morris and Hillman. That alone was as big as a town, the size? 650 metres by 450 meters Yet it was supposed to be an "Easy" landing! our losses? of the little assault craft we lost 29 out of 38, yet that was seen as an easy landing. See what I mean about legands? Sapper
Dave-you're right I was referring to OPJB, a patently absurd story which nevertheless fooled apparently knowledgeable people, including the late theatre critic and wartime intelligence officer Milton Shulman. As Kiwi says this farrago and several others are dissected in Nigel West's 'Counterfeit Spies'. The Hess story was further elaborated in a book by the prolific conspiracy/occult writers Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett. I must admit not to have read their book on the matter but apparently the real Hess perished in the plane crash which killed Joe Kennedy. Or something.... These are the people who maintain that the Turin Shroud was faked by Leonardo, even though the relic is known to have existed several centuies before his birth. I seem to recall that they were claiming recently that Lord Mountbatten was a Soviet agent. The biggest mystery about these authors seems to be the strange hold they have over the Daily Mail, which regularly serialises their latest 'shock bestseller'. Fake military and espionage memoirs must comprise their own literary genre by now. Wasn't that Vietnam story 'The Cage' thoroughly discredited years ago? Nevertheless I keep seeing it for sale in Waterstone's etc. The supposed Norfolk raid provided the inspiration for Jack Higgins' 'The Eagle Has Landed' of course.
Originally posted by Mark Hone@Aug 3 2005, 04:17 PM Dave-you're right I was referring to OPJB, a patently absurd story which nevertheless fooled apparently knowledgeable people, including the late theatre critic and wartime intelligence officer Milton Shulman. As Kiwi says this farrago and several others are dissected in Nigel West's 'Counterfeit Spies'. The Hess story was further elaborated in a book by the prolific conspiracy/occult writers Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett. I must admit not to have read their book on the matter but apparently the real Hess perished in the plane crash which killed Joe Kennedy. Or something.... These are the people who maintain that the Turin Shroud was faked by Leonardo, even though the relic is known to have existed several centuies before his birth. I seem to recall that they were claiming recently that Lord Mountbatten was a Soviet agent. The biggest mystery about these authors seems to be the strange hold they have over the Daily Mail, which regularly serialises their latest 'shock bestseller'. Fake military and espionage memoirs must comprise their own literary genre by now. Wasn't that Vietnam story 'The Cage' thoroughly discredited years ago? Nevertheless I keep seeing it for sale in Waterstone's etc. The supposed Norfolk raid provided the inspiration for Jack Higgins' 'The Eagle Has Landed' of course. [post=37185]Quoted post[/post] And a good piece of fiction & acting it was too. Another that comes to mind is "Eye of the Needle" starring Donald Sutherland as a ruthless German spy and Kate Nelligand and written by Ken Follett.
Originally posted by spidge+Aug 3 2005, 02:42 AM-->(spidge @ Aug 3 2005, 02:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Mark Hone@Aug 3 2005, 04:17 PM Dave-you're right I was referring to OPJB, a patently absurd story which nevertheless fooled apparently knowledgeable people, including the late theatre critic and wartime intelligence officer Milton Shulman. As Kiwi says this farrago and several others are dissected in Nigel West's 'Counterfeit Spies'. The Hess story was further elaborated in a book by the prolific conspiracy/occult writers Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett. I must admit not to have read their book on the matter but apparently the real Hess perished in the plane crash which killed Joe Kennedy. Or something.... These are the people who maintain that the Turin Shroud was faked by Leonardo, even though the relic is known to have existed several centuies before his birth. I seem to recall that they were claiming recently that Lord Mountbatten was a Soviet agent. The biggest mystery about these authors seems to be the strange hold they have over the Daily Mail, which regularly serialises their latest 'shock bestseller'. Fake military and espionage memoirs must comprise their own literary genre by now. Wasn't that Vietnam story 'The Cage' thoroughly discredited years ago? Nevertheless I keep seeing it for sale in Waterstone's etc. The supposed Norfolk raid provided the inspiration for Jack Higgins' 'The Eagle Has Landed' of course. [post=37185]Quoted post[/post] And a good piece of fiction & acting it was too. Another that comes to mind is "Eye of the Needle" starring Donald Sutherland as a ruthless German spy and Kate Nelligand and written by Ken Follett. [post=37186]Quoted post[/post] [/b] Yes, "The Eagle Has Landed" was entertaining, if you didn't take it too seriously. Once again the Americans save the day...sort of. Larry Hagman chewed a lot of carpet in that movie, Donald Pleasance was chilling, Robert Duvall effective, but Jenny Agutter was absolutely hopeless. She fell in love with Donald Sutherland instantly. Sutherland was a German spy again in "Eye of the Needle," and that time he romanced Kate Nelligan (good taste), and the end of the movie has the RAF arriving in a helicopter. Another triumph for the research department.
