Desperately searching for information on my grandfather WWII

Hi everyone,

I've been searching haphazardly for information about my grandfather for a long time now. No one in my family has managed to get very far, which is frustrating since all we really want to know at this stage is who he was and who his parents were.

His name was Ian Andrew Frederick Miller Crispe, and he died (lung issue, not war injuries) on 6/61944 in British India. He was a Warrant Officer Class II and was in the Royal Engineers.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for research? I've hit brick wall after brick wall, and I just don't know where to go from here. I have his grave/memorial number + name of cemetery, I have his service number and such, I just really want to find out who his parents were.

Any help/suggestions are much appreciated!


UPDATE: A lot of new information has been gathered from the people over at rootschat as well, about the potential mother in particular: At this point I think that Rosine Miller (maiden name) is the most likely candidate:
"Rosine Miller age 40 (father George) married John Frederick Crisp age 46 Widower - father Frederick in Poona January 1895. There is a baptism for a Rosine Miller in Poona 1853."
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHL-PFJ

There's also this information: "It looks as though John Frederick was previously married to Alice Ruth Myatt. (1875) Myatt would tie in with the wedding I found for Ruth Myart Crisp in England"

- information in quotes is taken directly from the rootschat thread

While it seems that Rosine Miller may be a strong candidate, there is also a Martha that was mentioned in the comments: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=713543.0

 

Hi and welcome to the forum, do you have his army records? army number, photos you could post here. The guys on here are fantastic could luck with your research.

Lotus7

 

Ian Crispe in the UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945

Name: Ian Crispe
Given Initials: I A F M
Rank: Warrant Officer Class II
Death Date: 6 Jun 1944
Number: 15001639
Birth Place: Berkshire
Residence: India
Branch at Enlistment: Other Corps
Theatre of War: India
Regiment at Death: Royal Engineers
Branch at Death: Other Corps


He I believe is also noted in another database I do not have access to -
India, Select marriages 1792 - 1948

but in there the name is Ian Miller Crisp - but would suggest he is the same person


TD

 

There is also an Ethel M Crispe coming back from India to UK on 7th July 1944 - this could be his wife:

Name: Ethel M Crispe
Birth Date: abt 1905
Age: 39
Port of Departure: Bombay, India
Arrival Date: 7 Jul 1944
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Bombay
Ship Name: Strathmore
Search Ship Database: Search for the Strathmore in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: P and O Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 164521

The detail on the list shows she was travelling with a daughter (Jean Iris aged 3) and a son (John Robert aged 3/4) and the return address was :
'Claremont'
Beechhouse Rd
Hemingford
Nr Barnsley

TD

 

Sorry to go off on a bit of a side track but I'm looking for details of a marriage which took place in India 1941 to 1945 between an Indian Army officer and a military nurse, both UK born. What/where is the marriage database you are referring to, TD ?

Cheers

Chris

 

Hi Chris

It is one of the databases on Ancestry, but as I do not have world wide access I cannot look at the record. The system lets me know its there but as I say access is denied unless I up my subscription, its a tease on Ancestrys part to try and suck more money out of its subscribers.

The info re the database is:

Source Information
Ancestry.com. India, Select Marriages, 1792-1948 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.
Original data: India, Marriages, 1792-1948. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013.
About India, Select Marriages, 1792-1948
This collection includes marriage records from India.

TD

 

HI dbf

Looking at the limited info I can see on the India marriage section it does show under the relatives column (which is all I can see) there are the names 'John Fred. Doris Murice' - which I was just checking out and as your results show it probably is his father and mother. Coming from the opposite angle and searching in the same section for an Ethel marrying a Mr Crisp, then the result shows an Ethel M Sullivan as the potential maiden name for his wife.

I shall also delve deeper into Doris - but it appears we know Ian Miller Crisp(e)'s fathers name which opens up another avenue

TD

edited to add :

View Record Doris Murice Mcleod date location Percy Joseph, Ian Miller

 

But then Ethel M is listed as spouse in CWGC details ??? confused

Nice find on the WW1 bits

TD

edited to add :

he could have married twice of course, Doris in 1923, and them Ethel in 1940/41 assuming that from the passenger details with the youngest being 3 years old (1944 - 3 = about 1940/41 marriage date)

 

Nothing in the British India Office deaths and burials I'm afraid.

 

Thank you so much everyone!

Long reply...

Thanks for those, dbf, I have those details from his WWII service record, but I've never heard of MOD. I will have to look into that for sure. I don't know how to get a hold of his marriage records, but now that some of the comments on here seem to point to specific information about where they got married, I'll probably have an easier time of it. Thanks!

Thanks TD! I had no record of my grandfather's birthplace... this is great!

This is amazing information - thank you so much dbf... how did you find all this? I know that Ian was married before he married my grandmother (or, at least I believe he was), but this gives me a lot more information than I had before. I wonder how I could go about finding who Mrs M Crisp was. Are birth/death records quite easy to find once you have names/dates/locations?

That was the ship that brought my father back to England! Jean is his sister. I didn't have the record or the return address, though... thanks! She left India the day he died, and didn't find out about his death until she landed in England. 3 year old daughter, a sickly baby son and pregnant with another. Poor grandma. The return address is probably her brother's house, or a boardinghouse she went to...

I hope I haven't missed anyone in the 'thank you's! :biggrin:

 

Image of passenger list



Do you know Ethel M's maiden name??

TD

 

There is this company
Messrs. Hoare Miller & Company, 5 Fairlie Place, Calcutta
which seems to be the one identified by dbf in post #8 and may be the link to the "Miller" part of his name?

It might help track the family location in India (now Kolkata)

 

Yes, I do - her maiden name was Ablett.

 

Thanks KevinBattle, do you think such a company would keep historical records of people involved in their business, or is that likely to be a long shot?

 

Hi

Would this be your mother?
Name: Ethel Ablett
Gender: Female
Age: 31
Birth Date: abt 1905
Departure Date: 4 Sep 1936
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Bombay, India
Ship Name: Moldavia
Search Ship Database: Search for the Moldavia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: P and O Steam Navigation Company
Official Number: 145973
Master: E P Parfitt

It shows her 'trade' as "S Army Officer" could this be correct??

 

There is also a family tree for her

The S stands for Salvation Army

and there is a comment about her husband:
Husband

Was a major in the Indian Army......on his return to England journey to Uk his ship was sunk by a torpedoe.... Ethel had returned from india and was awaiting his return ..instead she recieved news he had been killed. They lived at Mellor Road Wombwell ...no 50 I believe....Ethelmoved to aldhamhouse lane estate with paul and died there ...paul was almost 18 at the time when she passed away. He was eventually allowed to remain in the house.

From your first post above, could he have died from the consequences of being sunk, probably rescued then contracted pneumonia or something like that.

Other info from the family tree for Ethel is :

Occupation 1936 Age: 31
India
Salvation Army Officer

Destination
1936 Age: 31
Bombay, India

Address
1960 Age: 55
50 Mellor Road, Wombwell,

Address
1970 Age: 65
Wombwell, Yorkshire, England
21 Pearson Creascent, Aldham House Lane

Death
Wombwell, Yorkshire, England

Occupation
Denmark
Salvation Army Officer

Occupation
Iceland
Salvation Army Officer


I also note that her husband's details are slightly different to previously, but that could be down to transcription errors:

John Miller-Crisp

Military
1941 -45
India
British-Indian Army. Rank of Major.

and 3 children are shown:

Jean Miller-Crisp

John Miller-Crisp

Kathleen Miller-Crisp

So I note the 'e' at the end of the surname seems to have been dropped and has been hyphenated with Miller - also he is noted as John
I say this in case others are searching for info and it therefore provides other avenues to follow.

TD