A relative of mine was in a tank which took a direct hit and he survived. Italy 1944. The incident caused him so much trauma that he just decided to walk away. He lived for some months with an Italian woman before being found and eventually sent to prison. Whilst in prison he told me he found it strange he received his brother’s army things. His brother was killed in action the previous year. I was told by another that the army were making an example of him by ensuring his brother’s kit went to him. Has anyone come across this before? Was it an example or just chance? In the first war he would have been lucky to escape with his life but I realise things changed by the second war. The brothers were not in the same regiment but both regiments were possibly near each other in Italy. He truly did seem bemused by getting the kitbag.
It seems unlikely that 'the system' would track brothers. It might simply be that the younger brother had the elder one down as his next of kin? And you had to be pretty unlucky to be shot in the First World War, something like 90% of death sentences were reduced. Here you go: http://www.eastsussexww1.org.uk/shot-dawn/index.html
If his brother nominated him as Next of Kin, the personal effects would go to him. If his brother's mates knew he had a brother serving, perhaps they'd try to ensure it went to someone who'd appreciate it. Better than it going missing in transit or even dumped. *Also, returned personal effects were routinely checked for anything potentially embarrassing before being sent on to eg parents or spouse, if they were NOK. Either way, if your relative was also in the Army and in the same Theatre, I'd imagine it may have been sent to him to perform that task instead of a stranger. He'd have been administratively 'accounted for' as soon as he was sent to prison, mail etc catching up. Since he'd been absent for months, it would've been impossible to locate him until then. My personal view - there were more important things for the Army to organise. Desertion & AWOL were common enough (and discussed here across various threads - click on any of the Tags under thread tItle). This seems less like 'practice' and more like your relative finding an explanation that probably didn't apply. *A Veteran member, now deceased, recalled how his wife happened upon her own brother's effects whilst carrying out this duty.... IIRC this was how she first found out he'd not returned from a mission. http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/ww2-veteran-is-a-fraud.32439/page-2#post-393919
At any time in Italy in 1944 there were 22,000 deserters, 98% of them from the infantry, roaming around the rear areas. Desertion was common and unsurprising given what the soldiers had to endure. The problem for the authorities was that the deserters had to steal to survive so a lot of war material went missing. Many bunked up with local Italians and were able to pay for their keep by stealing military equipment particularly clothing, food and vehicle spares like tyres. The Americans estimated that 40% of everything that came into Naples from the US never reached its intended destination and was simply purloined. Regards Frank
Thank you for your responses. I am very familiar with ww1 history and of course ‘shot at dawn’. I have only mentioned one incident so had reason for the comparison made. Your responses were not surprising and confirmed it probably would not have been priority nor easy via different regiments to have a kitbag delivered to prison. I have never checked this out particularly because of family feelings. I am not judging either as I dnt know how I would have reacted in the same situation. I can say it did really happen. My grandfather also told me the account when I recorded his war. Next of kin was the wife and I know all info regarding missing and killed went to her. The family were large and mostly joined the local regt well before the war but my man was called up and didn’t end up with them. The soldiers I mentioned previously only one of whom was a close relative felt an example had been made to hit home that a good and brave soldier lost his life whilst the other hid. They said every man was needed to fight and they knew of heavy handed instances regarding awol soldiers. In fact this man was awol for a year I rechecked notes and was discovered at the end of the war whilst trying to return home. My understanding is that he served his sentence at home. I asked if loyal friends had found a way to deliver that bag but answers were not forthcoming. I even wondered if a family member organised it but apparently not. I do know that until my man passed away he maintained he was shocked to receive it. So, returning friends from the local regt or maybe even sent by a bitter family member I guess we will never know. Thanks again
A myth of WW1 - for the British army at least - although desertion was the crime for which most men were executed most men charged with desertion and sentenced to be shot were not executed. Executions were not carried out until the CIC approved the sentence and Haig for one seems to have been remarkably reluctant to do so commuting about 90% usually to a suspended sentence. Most men who were shot were repeat offenders but even here he could be lenient - one Canadian received no fewer than three death sentences and survived the war even thoough his divisional commander , his company commander and most of the men in his company were convinced that he ought to be shot!. The figures have been often distorted for, I suspect, political advantage. Prof Gary Sheffield has published a very good paper on the subject examining all the returns etc in Stand to Your Front The army with the really dreadful reputation for executing its own in WW1 was the Italian Army.
Thank you I have clearly given the impression I have little or no knowledge of ww1, which is not the case. I stand by the comment originally made by my man. He was wanted rid of and this I learned from other sources as well as the horses mouth. It wasn’t an uninformed comment and a lot of research went into why he believed if he’d been in a different war etc that would have happened. Yes a repeat offender and other offences too. I have deliberately not written any else about him. I perhaps should not have asked generally but was curious. Thanks all
