desert bracelet

Discussion in 'WW2 Militaria' started by Raffaele, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Raffaele

    Raffaele Member

    Hello,
    my name is Raffaele and I am Italian.
    My grandfather participated in the 1940/42 campaign at the North African Campaign, fighting against the British Army, alongside the Germans. He was an lieutenant of Regio Esercito.
    At home we have countless relics taken from the sands of desert. Among the many weapons there is a bracelet that the Commenwealth soldiers carried to the wrist. There is grade, serial number, name, address and department of membership: East Yorks Reg.
    Could someone gave me more specifics about it? Was it some English or not?
    From some research I've done, the address leads to Toronto. Was the East Yorks Reg. British or South African? PTE was a private, lowest military rank.
    Can you help me?

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Yes, it's British.

    Private WF Johnson 4344298 ( edit; see below for correct number) East Yorkshire Regiment.

    Looked for that number on CWGC , he's not listed so wasn't killed in WW2.

    Number fits into block issued to East Yorkshire Regiment 4334001 - 4379000

    Can't read the other side, can you post a clearer image please.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Think his number is 4344295. WF Johnson appears on 2 casualty lists:

    5th Bn East Yorkshire Regt

    List No. 916 Dated 31 August 1942
    Western Desert POW


    List No. 1502 Dated 19 July 1944
    Previously reported POW in Italian hands, now not POW
     
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  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The wording on the back looks something like:

    ??A. MARMADUKE.??

    Could the first of the initial 3 letters be an S or 3 or 5
    The second G or C
    IMG_0793 - Copy.JPG
     
  5. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Perhaps in his searches he came across the former borough of East York, Toronto and thought there was a connection?

    East York - Wikipedia

    Regards...
     
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  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It is possible, although not this actual example

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
    Name: Male Marmaduke
    Registration Year: 1852
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration district: Leicester
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Leicestershire
    Volume: 7a
    Page: 137

    TD
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Can Tony56 look up in the 1939 Register to see if there are any A Johnsons with perhaps an address of Marmaduke ?? St, Rd, Av ??

    TD
     
  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Good shot Owen, the 1939 Register has a 35a Marmaduke Street, Hull. Occupiers are by the name of Davies, there are some Johnsons around there, will investigate further.
     
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  11. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    1939 Register

    19 Marmaduke St, Kingston upon Hull
    Johnson, Francis W /Male /dob 6 Apr 1906 /Married /Foreman sheet metal worker
    Johnson, Alice / Female / 8 Mar 1905 /Married / Shopkeeper (Own account)
    Johnson, Frank William / Male / 16 Aug 1930 /Single


    Also

    7 Londesborough Terrace, Marmaduke St
    Johnson, James A / Male /7 Apr 1873 /Married / Ship tool smith
    Johnson, Ester A / Female / 19 Dec 1870 / Married
     
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  12. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Some POSSIBILITIES

    Francis W Johnson married Alice Worrell Q4 1926 Hull
    Frank William would appear to be the only child.


    James Alfred Johnson married Ester Alice Carr Q3 1895 Caistor, Lincolnshire. According to the 1911 census they had 1 child.
    There was a Walter Johnson born Q4 1895 Caistor.

    Edit: According to the 1901 census the son of James and Ester was Harold, aged 3, so forget Walter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  13. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Have you tried Marmaduke Street, Liverpool?
    Tim
     
  14. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Looking at Yorkshire in view of the regiment, have looked at 1939 Liverpool but nothing suitable.
     
  15. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately I do not have the expertise or resources of you chaps or I would try myself. By my obscure lateral thinking is there a possibility that the address refers to Next of Kin? Is Mrs Davies in Hull his sister or otherwise related?
    Tim
     
  16. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Good point Tim. Unfortunately we don’t know his first names and Johnson (and Davies) are common surnames which makes it difficult to search.

    As a point of interest a death notice in the Hull Daily Mail of January 4th 1938 reports that a Selina Sorrenson (mother of Rose and George, mother in law of Mary) died at 35a Marmaduke Street, Hull. It looks like the Davies family had only been there a short time in 1939.


    Will investigate further but not easy.

    Can I ask Raffaele, the originator, if the query was just out of interest or with some thoughts of finding the family to return the bracelet?
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Some clearer, sharper images would definitely help the search as well

    TD
     
  18. Raffaele

    Raffaele Member

    Thank you all for the answers!
    You are great!
    Do you therefore confirm that the regiment operated in Africa (Egypt) in 1941 or 42, when was my grandfather also?
    From what Tony56 W.F says, W.F. Johnson was a british soldier POW in the hands of the Italians.
    On the back of the bracelet is written: 35 A. MARMADUKE. ST.
    I think it's the soldier's address ... from my search is a Toronto street. A Canadian enlisted with the British Army? Who knows ...
    I did not think if I would return the bracelet if I found the descendants of the legitimate owner. I do not know. Actually, I'm writing a book about my grandfather's adventure in Africa, against the British. Every detail is useful to me.
    Thank you all.

    (for example I have another British object coming from the sands of Egypt and to inquire if you want to help me).
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Raffaele, I think that we are all certain that he is British and the address is Marmaduke Street, Hull in the UK.

    Trying a different direction, in addition to our WF Johnson there are 4 other 5th Bn East Yorks reported as POW on the same casualty list.

    I have found POW details for ALL except the one we are looking for, details are:

    Name: H Hillerby
    No: 4345283
    Camp location: Bystrice, Czech Republic
    POW No: 251717
    Record Office No:

    Name: L Rudkin
    No: 4347697
    Camp location: Annaburg, Saxony-Anhalt
    POW No: 227946
    Camp No: IV-D/Z
    Record Office No: 20

    Name: P Stack
    No: 4345143
    Camp location: Hartmannsdorf, Saxony
    POW No: 275458
    Camp No: IV-F
    Record Office No: 20

    Name: J T Stokoe
    No: 4344819
    Camp location: Sankt Johann im Pongau, Austria
    POW No: 39124
    Camp No: 317
    Record Office No: 20

    I appreciate that appearing on the same casualty list doesn't mean that the incident occurred in the same action, and may well have been on a different date but I am interested in why WF Johnson is not there? Perhaps he was not taken POW? Does anyone else have more POW records that could help?

    Edit: Raffaele, happy to help on other objects but PLEASE can you get some sharper pictures.
     
  20. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Tony,
    I have found a record of him in PG 53 Camp, Macerata, Italy.
    The Hull newspaper lists many East Yorks men as missing or pow throughout August and September 1942, but no W.F. Johnson.

    JOHNSON, East Yorkshire Regiment in Italian captivity (WO392/21)
    T. Johnson 85, E.D. Johnson 71, & Wm. A. Johnson 14 were also from Hull.

    Screen Shot 2017-11-05 at 15.47.10.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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