DEMS gunner losses

Sunday 1st December 1940

HARROW, George C, Private, 36822 (Gordon Highlanders), killed [TYNEMOUTH (PRESTON) CEMETERY]

Listed as killed by enemy action in WO166/3387. Possibly lost when British Officer badly damaged by a mine off Tyne Pier light?

Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

HARROW, George C, Private, 36822, Gordon Highlanders, killed 1 December 1940 (BRITISH OFFICER) [TYNEMOUTH (PRESTON) CEMETERY].

Regards
Hugh

 

Another casualty listed in WO166/3387.

Sunday 15th December 1940

FROST, Stanley V.K, Private, Army, 5118782, (Royal Warwickshire Regt), killed [WOODGRANGE PARK CEMETERY, EAST HAM] [Though CWGC says he was a L/Cpl]

On the same date Pte Thomas H. Lowe (5113884) also from Royal Warwickshire Regt is listed as being killed when N.C. Monberg was sunk after being attacked by German MTB S58 in the North Sea. So was Pte Frost killed in the same incident as Pte Lowe?

Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Hugh,

Regarding Gunner's Baker and Smith, it seems that they were not the only casualties suffered ashore on the 21st April. The Maritime Regt HQ war diary (WO166/3387) lists the following killed 'due to enemy action' on that date.

BAKER, Frederick P, Gunner, RA 1547939 (4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
BLAIR, John, Gunner, RA, 1607628 (5/3 Maritime Regt), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
COYLE, John, Gunner, RA, 1560063 (502 Bty, 79 Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY] [WO166/3387 gives surname as Goyle]
DAVIES, Gwilyn J, Lance Bombardier, RA, 1556553 (65 Bty, 34 LAA Regt), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
GRIMSBY, George G, Private, Army, 629199 (The Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
HERD, Ronald H, Lance Bombardier, RA, 3600142 (321 Bty, 26 Searchlight Regt), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY] [WO166/3387 says was a Gunner]
HOLMANS, Albert E, L/Cpl, Army, 6289358 (The Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
LOVATT, David W.L, Lance Bombardier, RA, 3125669 (502 Bty, 79 Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
MARRIOTT, Stuart M, Gunner, RA, 1653025 (368 Bty, 42 (7th Btn, The Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt)) Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
PARFITT, Edwin, Gunner, RA, 4079206 (503 Bty, 79 Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
PRASSER, Alfred P, Gunner, RA, 4079520 (503 Bty, 79 Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
SMITH, William R L, Gunner, RA, 4078163 (4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
THOMAS, Herbert V, Gunner, RA, 1485314 (64 Bty, 34 LAA Regt), killed [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY]
WOOLLEY, Clifford, Gunner, RA, 2083440 (368 Bty, 42 (7th Btn, The Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt)) Searchlight Regt) [PLYMOUTH (WESTON MILL) CEMETERY] [WO166/3387 gives surname as Wooley]

It would seem a fair assumption that they were all casualties off the heavy German air raid on the Plymouth area.

Regards,

Steve

 

Fair assumption Steve - some of them are on my list as died ashore. I have gone through all the names though and none died at sea.
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Steve,
I think it is a good possibility that he was aboard the ship. Looking at the online sources some of them are all over the place - it is obvious that some don't update their pages.
My count gives 14 Merchant seamen and 1 known gunner = 15, but I bet there is another. Although a Danish ship, she was under the Ministry of War Transport - official number - 167478. Next time you are down at TNA maybe check BT 381/1216.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

I agree with the 14 lost crew. I'll let you know the results of BT381/1216 next time I'm at Kew.

Regards,

Steve

 

Re: QUEENSBURY.

Hi Steve,

I have the survivor's report for the ship written by chief officer Catterson - my copy is bearly readable. He confirms the following: "The crew which included 1 naval and 2 military gunners, numbered 38 of which 9 men were killed, 16 are injured and 1 military gunner missing.

Forgive me please if I am teaching you to suck eggs here and it is certainly not my intention but when you look at the file BT 381/1582 which lists the crew there should also be another page which gives seperately a list of casualties and deaths aboard. I have attached the heading below. Of course it all depends on what detail has survived. I hope that is of some help.

Another that I cannot find is CARMICHAEL, Harry, Private, Army, 4623382, age 28, Duke of Wellington’s Regt, killed at sea 9 April 1941 - I was hoping to rule out ss LUNULA - Lloyd's states two gunners killed but only one naval gunner - WALTON, Able Seaman, SAMUEL, C/JX 177925. H.M.S. President III. Royal Navy lost in S.S. Lunula. 9th April 1941 is listed. The crew agreement for LUNULA (1941) - official number - 149640 - should you have any time is BT 381/1502


Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Sucking eggs not a problem when it comes to advice! I'll have another look at BT381/1582, but I'm pretty certain I checked every page of the Queensbury crew agreement. Regarding the C/O's casualty report of 9 crew lost, I have a total of ten (4 Officers and 6 OR), plus Gunner Still. Regarding the number of survivors BT381/1582 was somewhat confusing... It notes 38 survivors, namely a group of 16 (8 wounded) to an unidentified ship, 14 (2 wounded) by Fernside and 8 (plus 2 bodies) to a lifeboat. To add to my confusion, the RNLI archive says 12 survivors (including 1 who DOW) were transferred to lifeboat Good Hope from a coaster.

Yes I had Pte Carmichael as a possible gunner onboard Lunula together with AB Walton. I'll add BT381/1502 to the list, to see if he is mentioned. I see Lloyd's lists the 26 crew and 2 gunners, but not the Trinity House pilot (Herbert W. Ward) who was also lost in the sinking.

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
I don't see anything in the report mentioning the lifeboat but he does state that he and some of the survivors were picked up by the coaster CORUNDUM official number [148568 my insert] and landed at Methil on 6th. He also mentions some of the crew aft were picked up by FERNSIDE. The chief officer was subsequently awarded the MBE(Civ) and steward Carl Ellis the BEM(Civ) for their actions that day [Seedies List of awards to the Merchant Navy].

I also had the pilot noted - the sources are quite confusing at times.

Regards
Hugh

 

From RNLI archive 'Services by the Life-boats of the Institution and by Shore-boats during 1941'

JUNE 6TH. - MONTROSE ANGUS, AND GOURDON, KINCARDINESHIRE. At one in the morning the Montrose station heard from the coastguard that a convoy was being attacked by enemy aeroplanes thirteen miles E. 3/4 N. from Scurdyness, and at six minutes past two the motor life-boat Good Hope was launched. A light N.E. wind was blowing, and the sea was calm. At 3.45 the life-boat found the S.S. Queensbury, of London, a vessel of nearly 4,000 tons, with a crew of about 35. She had been set on fire and was blazing from stem to stern. Two coasters had taken off the crew, and one of them had gone on her way, but the other was still there, and the life-boat took aboard from her twelve rescued men, two of whom were badly injured. She brought them ashore, arriving at 6 A.M., and the men were sent straight to hospital, but one of them died later.

Regards,

Steve

 

Thursday 19th December 1940

HUCKS, William G, Private, Army, 5535359 (2/7th, The Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey)) [Brookwood Memorial] [CWGC says his serial number was 5435359, WO166/3387 says 5535359]

On the same date HOSMER, Henry E, Private, Army, 5572027 (The Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey)) was killed after tanker Arinia was mined in the Thames Estuary. Lloyd's says five gunners were lost in this sinking, I have identified three OR RN gunners, plus Private Hosmer. I believe Private Hucks is the other gunner casualty, any ideas.

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
He is not in my database but I note that I have come to the same conclusion as you. Maybe ship number 164649/1940 - BT 381/1132 will give confirmation.






Regards
Hugh

 

Tuesday 21st January 1941

DIXON, Arnold, Private, Army, 4467334 (Durham Light Infantry), killed [HEYWOOD CEMETERY, LANCASHIRE]

Listed in WO166/3387 as killed by enemy action. As far as I can see the only Allied ships attacked by enemy action on the 21st were Englishman and Temple Mead. The former was lost with all hands (17 crew and 1 RN gunner) and the latter is listed by Lloyd's as having 39 crew and 1 gunner onboard, of whom 14 crew were lost. CWGC confirms the identity of the 14 lost crew.

So was Pte Dixon a survivor from Temple Mead who succumbed to his wounds or was his death related to a different incident? Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
Name: Arnold Dixon
Given Initials: A
Rank: Private
Death Date: 21 Jan 1941
Number: 4467334
Birth Place: Lancashire
Residence: Lancashire
Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
Theatre of War: United Kingdom - It would normally state 'At Sea' if he was obviously lost at sea
Regiment at Death: Durham Light Infantry
Branch at Death: Infantry

and to back up your theory above:
England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Arnold Dixon
Death Age: 20
Birth Date: abt 1921
Registration Date: Jan 1941
[Feb 1941]
[Mar 1941]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Tynemouth
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 405

Pvt Arnold Dixon (unknown-1941) - Find A Grave...

 

Nothing at the moment to connect Arnold Dixon to either ship.

Captain Harrison the master of TEMPLE MEAD states in his report the compliment aboard his ship including himself was 41, of whom 1 man was killed and 13 missing - this tallies with the CWGC and the Deaths at Sea Register [14 lost]. The master was full of praise for the RN gunner Clinton [subsequently awarded BEM(Civ) for his actions that day. I also note he states that: "One of the gunners, Young, had unfortunately exposed himself during the second attack and was badly wounded. [He had to leave the gun protection to fetch ammunition]".

Looking at the armament aboard and the fact that there was only one Lewis gun which was fired during the action by the third officer and then the second officer rather than a gunner I think I would be correct in my assumption that RN gunner Clinton was on the 4 inch gun backed up by Young [I think Young was actually merchant seaman Norman Young whom I note was one of those killed].
My thinking then is there was only naval gunner aboard the ship. Of course there is always BT 381/1527 for the year 1941/ship number 160394 to check at TNA.

Rescue tug ENGLISHMAN lost one RN gunner, Henry Lewis Burchell and 17 MN crew. IMHO I think we need to look for Arnold Dixon elsewhere.

Regards
Hugh

 

25th or 26th February 1941


FREEMAN, William H, Fusilier, Army, 6982158 (Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers), killed [BURTON-UPON-TRENT CEMETERY]

WO166/3387 says killed by enemy action on 25th, but CWGC lists his death on 26th.

No obvious incident on the 25th, but numerous ships attacked on 26th, including Empire Steelhead, Leeds City and Melmore Head which were damaged by aircraft, the former losing six crew in the attack. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,



You can see the change of casualty date above.

He was aboard ss MINORCA which was torpedoed and sunk by S28 on 26.2.1941 and he died from exposure. I am not sure if he was acting as a gunner on this voyage or as a military passenger.
The RN gunner, LONG, Herbert R, Act/Able Seaman, D/JX 186073 was also lost along with a naval signalman JEFFERY, John M, Ordinary Signalman, C/JX 184139 [passenger].
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for that information. I see Lloyd's says the ship had onboard 19 crew and 3 passengers, of whom 17 crew and 2 passengers killed. I have identified15 Merchant Crew, so I guess there is a strong chance the two missing 'crew' were gunners.

Regards,

Steve

 

Saturday 1st March 1941

SAPERIAL, Hyman, Private, Army, 4545559, (West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)), killed [LEEDS (NEW FARNLEY) JEWISH CEMETERY]

WO166/3387 says he was killed by enemy action.

Ships damaged by air attacks on this date are Atheltemplar (11 crew lost) Empire Simba and Forthbank (4 crew lost), so was Pte Saperial killed onboard one of these?

Regards,

Steve