DEMS gunner losses

Thursday 12th March 1942

SAWDEN, Charles, Gunner, RA (6/3 Maritime Regt), 1784746 [BRIDLINGTON CEMETERY]
NEVILL, Leonard, Gunner, RA (6/3 Maritime Regt), 5443021 [CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK]

No obvious loss on the 12th to associate with these two gunners. The website recording 3 Maritime Regt losses says Gnr Sawden was lost S.S. Farfield, but that sinking was on the 15th July 1941 and it resulted in the loss of two RN gunners only. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
Charles Sawden was reported wounded at sea 15 July 1941 and reported to have died of his wounds on 12 March 1942 - This site suggests it was Sawden that was the only survivor of ss FARFIELD:
Charles Sawden | War memorials

I tend to agree he was on FARFIELD. Lloyd's and by default other sources state 1 x naval gunner was the survivor but to my knowledge there was a crew of nine, eight of whom died in the attack and are accounted for but there appears to have been no naval gunners aboard.

Re: gunner Leonard Nevill - casualty reports state 'died', UK - no further information on him.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for that information regarding Gnr Sawden. I saw two gunners from the same battery and wondered if their deaths were related. Sounds like Gnr Nevill was likely a illness/accident cause of death.

Regards,

Steve

 

Monday 16th March 1942

CLARK, Thomas, Lance Serjeant, RA (3/2 Maritime Regt) 3185069 [EDINBURGH (SEAFIELD) CEMETERY]

L/Sgt Clark was lost on this date. A shore burial would seem to indicate a death in a UK port. However Lloyd's lists has one gunner lost with the sinking of the Dutch tanker Oscilla on this date who I have not been able to identify. Though with that sinking taking place on the western side of the Atlantic, it would seem to rule L/Sgt Clark as being the lost gunner. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Casualty reports suggest he was lost in an accident on or since 16 March 1942.

Lloyd's does suggest that 3 crew and 1 gunner were lost but we know that there was 4 crew missing when the ship was sunk: the master, cook, and 2 Chinese seaman. Two other survivors were also lost when travelling as passengers on the Dutch LETO. Given the location of the sinking I doubt L/Sjt Clark was involved.
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Yes agree the location would make it highly unlikely L/Sjt Clark was involved. Sounds like Lloyd's counted one of the crew as a gunner.

Regards,

Steve

 

Friday 20th March 1942

WRIGHT, Leslie J, Gunner RA (6/3 Maritime Regt), 4463355 [SOUTH SHIELDS (HARTON) CEMETERY]

Gnr Wright lost on this date. No apparent shipping incident/loss and a shore burial, so I believe he died from an accident/illness. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
Gunner Leslie James Wright died as the result of an accident. On the evening of his death, he was stationed at Falmouth, and while off-duty got into a scuffle with a Home Guard on sentry duty during which he sustained stab wounds to his abdomen from a bayonet. Leslie was taken to Falmouth Hospital where he later died.
There are some newspaper reports which give a headline of "ship's gunner stabbed". I don't have access to them but the headline suggests he was attached to a ship.

Regards
Hugh

 

Tim

 

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for a that. What a tragic, foolish and pointless way to die. The demon drink indeed.

On a different subject, it does show the ridiculousness of the CWGC policy towards determining when or when not a Merchant Navy loss is recorded by them. As the late Gnr Wright shows, all military personnel, no matter of the circumstances of their death, were rightly afforded a CWGC record. So I struggle to understand why all the poor old Merchant Navy wartime losses are not given the same treatment. A truly baffling policy.

Regards

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

Absolutely correct!

I have come across this situation many, many times now as a MN researcher and I find it hard to understand. There are also a number of cases of armed forces personnel who were executed for murder who find themselves commemorated in perpetuity by the CWGC.

The CWGC are governed with regard to MN commemorations by a very strict rule set which they apply to each and every case.

“We commemorate all sailors of the Commonwealth Merchant Navies (and specified associated auxiliary organisations and the fishing fleet) who died, while signed on for a voyage:

• as a result of enemy action;
• while detained by the enemy; or
• as a result of the increased risks specified in the Pensions (Mercantile Marine) Act 1942.”

The death also had to be reported – as a death by enemy action or increased war risk - by the RGSS of the time. In a lot of cases this did not happen and as such the burden of proof is very much on those who put the names forward to the CWGC. This burden of proof is usually very difficult and expensive to obtain.

Some people pull down statues as a way to right the wrongs of the past, others take forms of direct and indirect action to highlight there causes.

Those who try and highlight the cases of non-commemoration of MN seamen who died in service of their country are always met with the RULES. I always think though that where there is a will there is a way. But right now, sadly, there isn’t the will.

Regards
Hugh

 

Indeed, I guess the Merchant Navy always suffers from being a disparate collection of seafarers, who generally have no regiment or famous ship to form an association around. And with many shipping companies then and even now (as I found to my cost recently!) not caring for their crews, the result is no one had/has the power to effect real change, so on a technicality many lost sailors have no CWGC record.

Regards,

Steve

 

Wednesday 25th March 1942

COLLIER, Harold, Gunner, RA, 1738711, (3/2 Maritime Regt), killed [PoM]
COTTER, Ronald F, Gunner, RA, 4754429, (3/2 Maritime Regt), killed [PoM]

Probably lost when S.S. Tredinnick was sunk by submarine R.Smg Calvi in the North Atlantic.

Lloyd's has the cargo ship as being lost with 40 crew and 6 gunners. CWGC identifies 11 Officer and 29 OR crew and 4 OR RN gunners, so I believe these two Army gunners are the other two gunners. Any ideas.

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
I can confirm that your thoughts on gunners Cotter and Collier are correct and both were lost on TREDINNICK.
Regards
Hugh

 

Sunday 29th March 1942

WADDY, Richard H, Bombardier, RA (3/2 Maritime Regt), 4348625, killed [PoM]

No obvious loss for the death of Bdr Waddy. S.S. Hertford was sunk on this date, but its seems the only casualties were four crew killed/DOW. Tanker Oltenia II was damaged in the Indian Ocean, but that attack doesn't appear to have resulted in any deaths. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve, none of the above.
Bdr Waddy was one of two MRA gunners aboard the Panamanian registered vessel - BATEAU. The other gunner was Robert Taylor who was one of only six that survived. Bdr Waddy only lived for ten minutes in the frigid water. [Forgotten Sacrifice - The Arctic Convoys of World War II]

WADDY, Bombardier, RICHARD HECTOR, 4348625, 3/2 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Bateau) 29 March 1942. Age 27. Panel 72, Column 1.

Gnr R. Taylor was picked up by German Naval ship and remained a PoW for the duration of the war.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for that. I see the casualties for Bateau are mixed up, the ship was lost on the 28th, but the twelve UK/Canadian Merchant Navy seafarers who were lost with the sinking are listed on the 27th Bdr Waddy is on the 29th. I guess it is to be expected with the ship being intercepted by a German destroyer and being lost alone.

Regards,

Steve

 

Wednesday 1st April 1942

PATTERSON, William T, Gunner, RA (2/1 Maritime Regt), 945704 [SUNDERLAND (RYHOPE ROAD) CEMETERY]

Gnr Patterson was lost on this date. There is no obvious shipping loss to associate with his death. S.S. Robert W. Pomeroy was mined in the North Sea, but the only loss reported with that loss is a RN gunner (AB Taws).

So with the absence of a shipping incident and a shore burial, I expect his death was from an accident/illness. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Concur with your thoughts Steve. Casualty reports stated 'died'. No other indication of service afloat or an accident ashore.
Regards
Hugh

 

No help but for info. Showing he died at Gartloch Emergency Hospital (near Glasgow).


Tim