DEMS gunner losses

Just checked my blurry picture of the document. Notice I should have put Fusilier rather than Private for him. It could be 3458272 or 3455272.

 

I guess that explains the mystery of why he was killed at sea, when his unit was in Hampshire.

 

This is what I have so far will try and look again later if I have some time.




Nixon - Prisoner of War - Detachment E793 Stalag 344 (formerly Bau und Arbeits Battalion 21)

Murphy - Prisoner of War - Lamsdorf (Oberschlesien) Camp 344

Citrine - Prisoner of War - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)

Howarth - Prisoner of War - Detachment E793 Stalag 344 (formerly Bau und Arbeits Battalion 21)

Wright - Prisoner of War - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)

Garside - Prisoner of War - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)

Varley - Prisoner of War - Marlag und Milag Nord, Westertimke

Fus, J.W. Vernon 3458272 previously reported missing [1941] then updated to prisoner of war [1941] then updated as being wounded and prisoner of war [1942] then reported repatriated in 1943.

Gnr, M. Scully 3449978 previously reported as missing [1941] then updated to prisoner of war in German hands [1941] then updated to not a prisoner of war [1945].

Regards
Hugh

 

The only Vernon POW who was also a Fusilier is

Name: A Vernon
Rank: Fusilier
Army Number: 3446799
Regiment: King's Own Royal Regiment
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: VII-A
Camp Location: Moosburg an der Isar, Bavaria
Record Office: Infantry Record Office, The Public Hall, Lune Street, Preston, Lancashire

If he was repatriated in 1943 then your best bet might be to contact the Int'l Red Cross who presumably would have records for him

 

UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: W G Citrine
Rank: Gunner
Army Number: 1543491
Regiment: Royal Artillery
POW Number: 86842
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: Stalag
Camp Location: Wolfsberg, Austria

Name: H Howarth
Rank: Bombardier
Army Number: 1544193
Regiment: Royal Artillery
POW Number: 86843
Camp Type: Miscellaneous Establishments
Camp Number: BAB 21
Camp Location: Blachownia, Poland

Name: M Murphy
Rank: Gunner
Army Number: 1599156
Regiment: Royal Artillery
POW Number: 87662
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: 344
Camp Location: Lambinowice, Poland

Name: T Nixon
Rank: Gunner
Army Number: 1523197
Regiment: Royal Artillery
POW Number: 86844
Camp Type: Miscellaneous Establishments
Camp Number: BAB 21
Camp Location: Blachownia, Poland

Name: M Scully
Rank: Gunner
Army Number: 3449978
Regiment: Royal Artillery
POW Number: 86512
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: 344
Camp Location: Lambinowice, Poland

 

Yes, in my experience, those prisoners of war who were repatriated were not recorded on those pow
lists.
Regards
Hugh

 

Re: Lawrence Lonergan

Am I missing something here?
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

No, it was related to a comment in a separate thread regarding Lincolnshire Regiment casualties. It was wondered of how when the unit was based in Hampshire, Pte Lonergan could be listed as killed at sea. It not being realised that he had been detached for DEMS gunner duty.

Regards,

Steve

 

Thank you Steve, I should pay more attention.
Regards
Hugh

 

The attached shows they were originally King's Regiment and missing. Then both reported as prisoners.
However a 1945 updated report stated that C. Wright 3777307 was previously reported as prisoner of war in German hands. Now not a prisoner in German hands. So what happened between 1941 and 1945 as there is no report of a repatriation that I can see.



Regards
Hugh

 

UK, World War II Allied Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: J. Varley
Rank: Pte.
Military Date: 1939-1945
Regiment: Kings
Service Number: 3777304


Name: J Varley
Rank: Private
Army Number: 3777304
Regiment: The King's Regiment
Camp Type: Marlag Und Milag Nord
Camp Number: Marlag und Milag Nord
Camp Location: Westertimke, Lower Saxony


Name: J Varley
Rank: Private
Army Number: 3777304
Regiment: The King's Regiment
Camp Type: Marlag Und Milag Nord
Camp Number: Marlag und Milag Nord
Camp Location: Westertimke, Lower Saxony

 

UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: C Wright
Rank: Private
Army Number: 3777307
Regiment: The King's Regiment
POW Number: 87445
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: Stalag
Camp Location: Wolfsberg, Austria

Name: C. Wright
Rank: Pte.
Military Date: 1939-1945
Regiment: Kings
Service Number: 3777307


Name: C. Wright
Rank: Pte.
Military Date: 1939-1945
Regiment: Kings
Service Number: 3777307


Interesting to see Wright in a Stalag yet Varley was in a Milag/Marlag ????

 

17th June 1941

Private A.QUINN (3603921) listed by WO166/3387 as missing, notified on 17th July 1941, with date of casualty given as 17th June 1941. No record on CWGC, so presumably taken prisoner.

If the casualty date is correct, he could have been captured when Tottenham was intercepted by German raider Atlantis on that day. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
Check his service number it should be 3603921 - A. V. Quinn, 1/1 A.A. Mar Regt. R.A. first reported missing 17.6.1941 and belived POW.
1942 - Confirmed as a POW.
1944 - Previously reported as POW in German hands (Germany) now repatriated.
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

Thanks, yes you're right with 3603921, I've edited the original entry.

Regards,

Steve

 

I tend to agree that the chances are good for the ship being TOTTENHAM if the reported date is correct.
There are only so many files you can look at in a day but should you have time, the last CA is held at Kew for 1941/167541 - BT 381/1697.
There is also a MN POW file held in BT 373/326 - in my experience there can be a nominal roll held in these files listing crew including gunners.

Regards
Hugh

 

24th August 1941?

All WO166/3387 as missing, notified on 26th August 1941, with date of casualty given as 24th August 1941. No records on CWGC, so presumably taken prisoner.

L/Bdr R. Gilmore (1482776)
Gnr K. Ratcliffe (3529948)
Gnr B. Pearson (3532080)
Gnr W. Fisher (1652201)
Gnr G. Lawler (3773218)
Gnr R. Weir (155210)

Possible ship could be Devon, though that ship was intercepted by raider Komet on the 19th August. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,
All were reported missing initially then confirmed as prisoners of war (1941). All appear to be 4th M.A.A. Regt.
In 1945, they were all noted as being prisoners of war in German hands (Now not prisoners of war).

Delays in reporting could be due to the time between capture and the raider arriving home. If KOMET was the raider she didn't arrive back in France until November that year.
If DEVON, official number, 139098, was the ship involved then her last LB/CA should be held at Kew in piece
BT 381/1333.
There should be a nominal roll of her crew held in the POW file for DEVON which is held in piece BT 373/80.

L/Bdr R. Gilmore (1482776) - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)
Gnr K. Ratcliffe (3529948) - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)
Gnr B. Pearson (3532080) - No camp noted.
Gnr W. Fisher (1652201) - Marlag und Milag Nord, Westertimke
Gnr G. Lawler (3773218) - Wolfsberg (Kärnten)
Gnr R. Weir (1552100) - Marlag und Milag Nord, Westertimke - note the correct service number for Weir.

Regards
Hugh

 

Steve, going back to your #211 the highlighted gunner above is a typo and should be Gnr John Matthais Hayler 1512189.
Gunner Hayler was lost on 15 March 1941 aboard ss ATHELFOAM and the crew taken as prisoners. On 15/16 March many ships were sunk by the SCHARNHORST and GNEISENAU and their crews taken as PoW, so I suspect many of the names above are from these sinkings.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thursday 18th September 1941

PARKINS, Thomas F, Gunner, RA, 1793370 (7/4 Maritime Regt), [PROSPECT HILL MILITARY CEMETERY]

No obvious shipping incidents and a shore burial, looks like Gnr Parkins may have been killed by an accident/illness. Any ideas?

Regards,

Steve