Delisle - Commando Carbine .45 Cal. Bolt Action Si

Thanks Plant Pilot,

Yes it was a log time ago when I heard it, late 50's, so we would say it was a pistol/revolver.

Might be an excuse to watch the Desert Rats again tonight and see if they made any Faux Pas's

Could it have been a Welrod?

This was designed early in the war at Station IX in Welwyn and BSA were involved in the production. Do you know when these actually went into production?

 

I can find no actual record of when the weapon went into production, but the way things worked they could well have seen action before they were in full production.

They were not however issued outside the SOE or OSS world so it is very unlikely that they would have been available for night patrols in the Middle East.

Although an exellent weapon for what it was supposed to do, it suffered (as a hand gun) from limited range and if 9mm could only be as 'silent' as intended with the use of sub-sonic ammunition. You have to wonder why it was never made in the same .45 caliber as the DeLisle which would have given it the sub-sonic ammunition as standard and improved the stopping power.

Again, Welrods were supposed to have been last used by the British in the Falklands which is 40 years after their first issue, the sign of a classic.

 

I know from my own experience that quantities of WWII (and even WWI) manufacture ammunition and WWII demolition and incendiary devices were retained in the British inventory in small quantities until well into the 1970s at least.

Some of this was then disposed of, having reached the end of its usefulness and shelf life.

A lot of this stuff was disposed of when a small and rather obscure special depot was closed.

Among the ammunition which continued to be kept, although there were then no weapons to match in the mainstream British inventory was .30 Carbine, .455 Webley and .45 ACP. It is not unreasonable to suppose that stocks still exist.

No firearm is truly silent, but the use of baffle systems can eliminate much of the sound produced at the muzzle. However, all high velocity rounds will also produce a "ballistic crack", caused by the passage of the bullet through the air. For this reason, low velocity ammunition which fires sub-sonic ammunition, such as .45 ACP, is best suited.

Finally, I doubt if all members of the SAS are fully familiar with everything hidden away at the back of their no doubt large armoury and there is certainly no reason to suppose that they throw away perfectly good equipment.

 

All that you say here is spot on.

The Welrod was a close kill weapon (25 yards or less so subsonic 9mm would not have been a problem.

The Owen funnily enough was supposed to use .45 due to its plentiful supply however powers to be got their way and forced them to use 9mm.

 

Originally posted by spidge@Aug 28 2005, 02:18 PM
All that you say here is spot on.
The Owen funnily enough was supposed to use .45 due to its plentiful supply however powers to be got their way and forced them to use 9mm.
[post=38260]Quoted post[/post]

As I said before, the government wanted the DeLisle in 9mm as well, as they thought that in it's area of operation (behind the lines) german 9mm would have been more plentiful than the .45 round in cases of supply problems. William DeLisle insisted on the sub-sonic .45 round rather than compromise the 'silence' and stopping power of the weapon.

If it had been 9mm it would only have been silent if sub-sonic 9mm rounds were used, which would hav had to be specially made, and any captured 9mm rounds would have been full, power. If the developer of the Welrod had insisted on the same (it was made in .38 as well as 9mm) it would in my opinion have made a very effective weapon much better, as if you have a single round pistol I would have thought the more stopping power the round has the better.

 

Question:

Would you believe that there is an Arms manufacturer in the UK at present who is making De Lisle's?

 

Yes, they make two types. An accurate copy complete with baffles for sale in the US in states that allow class III weapons and a version that has the baffle sleeve around the normal barrel for sale in other places.... this version of the weapon is not silenced and would take too much work to convert it to a silenced version.

 

Originally posted by plant-pilot@Aug 28 2005, 10:53 PM
Yes, they make two types. An accurate copy complete with baffles for sale in the US in states that allow class III weapons and a version that has the baffle sleeve around the normal barrel for sale in other places.... this version of the weapon is not silenced and would take too much work to convert it to a silenced version.
[post=38265]Quoted post[/post]

Must be for those states where they do not want to scare the deer to death before they kill them.

 

Originally posted by spidge@Aug 28 2005, 02:59 PM
Must be for those states where they do not want to scare the deer to death before they kill them.
[post=38267]Quoted post[/post]
More for the American weaopn collector market than for use on any official operations

 

Originally posted by plant-pilot@Aug 28 2005, 01:53 PM
Yes, they make two types. An accurate copy complete with baffles for sale in the US in states that allow class III weapons and a version that has the baffle sleeve around the normal barrel for sale in other places.... this version of the weapon is not silenced and would take too much work to convert it to a silenced version.
[post=38265]Quoted post[/post]

I saw and shot a 'De Lisle' that may have been one of the first type at a gun club I was a member of in the 80s.

The barrel vents started about 2 1/2" in front of the chamber and IIRC they increased in size towards the muzzle. The silencing in an indoor range was not so effective that the striker blow drowned out the report, but it was not unlike the sound of a big spring-piston air rifle.

The velocity reduction was substantial - .45 ACP handloads that ran at over 800 ft./sec. in a standard Colt M1911A1 only made 690 in the De Lisle. My guess was it would be its best out to maybe 30 yards - 50 in a pinch, but the trajectory would be poor and require precise rangefinding beyond that. Excellent as a stealth weapon against high-value enemies, but not a thing to have to fight with, despite its stopping power.

Regards,
MikB

 

Yes, it sounds like a 'range legal' copy, and the vents may be the reason for the short range and low power of the round. The originals were accurate to well over 100m by all accounts. If they weren't you might as well just saved some room and taken a Welrod on your 'job'.