Decipher previous engagements

Can anyone please decipher these previous engagements for me? I know nothing and can barely read the record.

 

Hi,

Looks like he served for a few weeks in 49 West Riding Division (Territorial Army) in one if the Royal Artillery Units but the copy is so poor I can’t make out the specific unit.

I see you've also posted another query arising out of his RAF service record. It’s forum best practice to keep all queries arising out of a service record on the same topic. Saves confusing members and duplication of effort.

Steve

 

Thank you. I tried to reply to myself with the second post, but lost the post when I tried to upload the photo, so had to start a new thread. New to this site and struggling to navigate.

 

It always helpful to add the subject's name, date of birth (DoB) and Service Number.

Leaving aside legibility the subject was clearly only in the TA between 4/6/1937-26/7/1937 and his division 49th (West Riding) Infantry Division according to Wiki:

From: 49th (West Riding) Infantry Division - Wikipedia

The Order of Battle Wiki has indicates the division had four artillery units upon mobilisation when war was declared; x3 field and one anti-tank. None of them have a '6' or '19' regimental number. See: 49th (West Riding) Infantry Division - Wikipedia

The Service Number 1589206 was issued upon enlistment to the Royal Artillery. From: Army Number Search Later research found it does not refer to the subject, but does refer to a gunner.

 

Thank you for this. His name was Arthur Cooke. 20 December 1919. Unsure where to find service number.

 

LHolman,

We always recommend applying for the subject's full service record. Yes, it may take a year to arrive - either from the MoD or National Archives (TNA). It is not available online and is the definitive record. There is nothing you can do about the wait. The records were never intended to be read today. See: Get a copy of military records of service

You need his full name, Date of Birth and Date of Death (an official document i.e. Death Cert. or CWGC Record). You do not need his Service Number, though it may help to provide it..

The possible Service Number I cited does not refer to him when checking The National Archives (TNA), but another gunner with a different DoB.

 

I have his record, it only took a couple of months to arrive, fortunately. I just don't know where to find his service number on the record and the picture quality is pretty poor.

 

I've tried different versions of what you considered his service number, but nothing works. Odd.

 

His RAF Service number is different to that of previous army service.

You will find his RAF Service Number at the very top right of the front page of the record (page where previous service box is) labelled Official Number.

This row of Name/Trade/Official Number is repeated on the inside page on the far right margin (page where the Special Qualification box is).

The RAF Service Numbers for airmen/airwomen of the recent transfer have yet to be included on TNA Discovery (online searchable catalogue) and so will not be found.

Ross

 

Thank you, Ross. I tried to look that up online, but ai said not the same thing. I trust you more.

 

You should be able to find his index card in AIR78 which will confirm RAF Service Number

Cook, Ralph Percival - Cooke, David Clifford. | The National Archives

Sign up to to free account at TNA and download for free

Discovery only indexes the first and last card in each microfilm so search by individual name not available on that free platform.

Some cards are missing so not an exhaustive test of if he was RAF.

Ross

 

Signed up to it, but can't find anything. I tried at least. This is all for my mum. I've told her I received the service record and she is delighted. I just need to transcribe it for her. I was curious if he could be part of the "secret" thread, as his initial, surname and job role are correct, but I bet there were plenty of A. Cookes. Thanks for your help.

 

No worries - AIR78 just gives name and service number - occasionally a bit on if conscript by saying Militia - everything you need is in the service record the only redactions are for medical/punishment nothing is secret.

Just a thought you did look at the Arthur Cookes as well as the A Cookes in the second of the pdfs offered for download - there were a couple of pages of cards under both.

Wireless Operator Mechanic was a ground trade. Shout up if you need help on anything else.

Ross

 

I don't think I did, but I don't know if I understand. I haven't the brain power. Ill try again at some point, but feeling a little defeated. I don't even know what I'm looking for at this point! All help is welcome. TMI CFS. A.C 651675.

 

Nothing jumps out from that text but once we recognise context it will.

Ron Rush service record was posted on here a few weeks ago - It shows a Form 543 in clearer detail - we can use it as format reference for your one.

Easiest to understand is the progression of rank/classification this is shown under the column on inside page "promotions/reclassifications/reversions"

The normal progression is AC2 to AC1 to LAC then Cpl to Sgt to Flight/Sgt to Warrant Officer.

Each step from AC2 to LAC has a pay increase but also needs an increased trade skill level. These are classifications
Cpl and Sgt involves supervising others in trade, F/Sgt and W/O involves supervising groups of trades. These are Ranks

Ranks can be T or temporary which basically means being on job assessed to see if rank can be made official.

I expect your record will show AC2 to AC1 to LAC - his LAC date should be a few days after his ex reclass date in special qualifications. Promotion from AC2 to AC1 was mainly time based around 6 months but needed a few things crossed off eg education/trade skill and available establishment position for AC1 in trade open. AC1 to LAC was open position and suitable pass in LAC exam - no time requirement.

Make sense for your record?

Ross

 

AC2, AC1, LAC, L.Corp, AC1 LAC, Temp Corp

 

Tricky to see the squadrons in what I assume is hospital record, but he did join no. 206/maintenance group at some point. 11/2/43, he discharged to H.Q. 206 group. 1/9/43 he is L. Corp.
12/11/44 he is discharged to 46 squadron.
20/7/44 he is AC1 again.

 

Bingo!

A revision from Cpl to AC1 - this usually happens on a change of trade eg as you are less skilled in the new trade you cannot expect to be paid the same as someone with the same overall service time. But it is also unreasonable not to recognise service time so in the new trade you start as AC1 not AC2.

We will use Musterings to clear the detail up.

Before moving on the column entries Authy C.Form and Date of Effect are admin detail. Date of effect is when his appointment was made official and more importantly when he would be backdated pay from. Sometimes it took a few weeks for the airman overseas to be informed of a reclassification/promotion but the date on the F543 was gospel.

Authy C.Form was the admin reference for where to find the actual official signal/memo relating to this item. Authy - Authority - as it says on tin - who said it was to be and C Form stood for Casualty Form - RAF was just using an existing reporting system here for double duty - did not mean that he had been injured.

Usually Auth or C Form has long been destroyed so no issues if column blank and usually no mileage in looking for it if filled in.

Ross

 

We will come back to postings - this is the bit that causes the most trouble for people not aware of RAF procedure to understand - when the clerks filled in this form 80+ years ago they did so under strict procedures that relied on an understanding of wider RAF organisation that a relative reading it today lacks.

Ignoring the column Authy C Form what are the lines under Mustering - should be some abbreviations ending with date with the odd u/t thrown in?

Edit - excellent - beat me to the question!


Ross