Deal Tank and other WW1 tanks on display

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by Capt.Sensible, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    Evening all,

    A colleague has asked for help re. the 1st War tank and ?field gun photographed here beside Deal Castle in Kent. One photo appears to be dated 1938. Somebody on another forum thinks that the tank was placed in 1919 and removed for scrap in 1936:
    WWI Tanks in Kent

    What is for sure, is that the tank was certainy not the only one in Kent during the inter-war period. I have done a bit of Googling around but cannot find much out there at all. What my colleague would really like to know is when it was placed, when it was removed and for what reason? I realise this is bit of tall ask but nothing ventured....

    The tank appears to be a ?late MkIV with fascine rails and was located at about NGR TR 377 522.

    Deal Castle:
    Deal Castle : Kent : South East : Find a property by map : Properties : Days Out & Events : English Heritage

    Deal Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thanks in advance for any contributions.

    CS
    :)









    here
     

    Attached Files:

  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Nothing concrete yet, but the 1919 placement date would seem likely, as that was when 265 Mk.IV's were sent out from Bovington as trophies. (A sprocket was removed and other moveable parts taken out once in situ to "prevent the possibility of its being used against the forces of Law & Order" according to Forty in 'Bovington Tanks'.)
    If the removal date was 1936, that's four years after the last of the vast bulk of WW1 tanks were scrapped by Cyril Roper, but most of those went straight from the depot to destruction, and lots of the civic ones were indeed scrapped later than those old dears.

    Bit more on the Trophy presentations, from Patrick Wright quoting the bulletin of the war savings committee:
    "The army council gave these War battered hulks to the National savings committee for presentation to towns of over 10,000 people that could claim 'conspicuous achievements in the purchase of bonds and certificates'... 'an exceptional opportunity for propaganda for the war savings movement'...'a dedication plate would be provided, which might be inscribed with the names of the dignitaries who had served on the local war savings committee" (You've got the book H, Chapter 8 - 'Bringing it all back home' has quite a bit more).
    Seems they weren't universally popular as many didn't want reminders of the war in their civic places.

    Not Kent, but a fair few references to flogging off of trophy tanks in the late 30s here:
    North East War Memorials Project - Regional Content

    Another nice account of delivery and scrappage from Rushden, (with a quote from Wheels and tracks, so I'll have a shufti in there to see if there's more on the Deal example):
    Rushden Research Group: WWI tank memories
    "World War I Presentation Tanks – After the end of World War I the British government donated 265 tanks to towns and cities in recognition of their efforts in buying War bonds and War Saving Certificates. They were awarded by the National War Savings Committee and delivered by the Tank Corps. Female types were selected because there were more of them and they could be supplied without guns and were therefore less likely to be used against the Government!

    On delivery by a Tank Corps crew – invariably by rail from Bovingdon Camp – they were driven to the selected site by the town council. The final drive chains were removed – just in case – and the officer made a speech telling of some famous actions that the tank had been in. (In fact most appear to have been training tanks, with no active service history at all). It is believed that most communities did not really welcome them. They were not actual war trophies and only reminded people of things they wished to forget. Thus the tanks were eventually scrapped, before or during WWII, except for one in Ashford, Kent."
    (Had a look and all that's in the article is the surviving one at Ashford.)


    Shame it wasn't still there when Deal castle was ours for the weekend ;).
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  3. gaspirator

    gaspirator Member

    Not Kent, but there was one at Eastbourne; I remember seeing a letter in the local rag c.1937-38 calling for it to be removed as it might lead enemy bombers to think the town was a military target. I suspect that it went during the wartime scrap metal drive, but have nothing to hand that can confirm it.

    Pete
     
  4. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    VP, thanks mate, that is above and beyond the call of duty. I didn't actuallly go to Deal with TG but remember looking at the Duke of Wellington's death chair in some awe as a youngster.

    Gaspirator, thanks for your input, perhaps one day we might find what became of the Eastbourne tank.

    H
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I can't help thinking it's such a bugger they were scrapped. I'd see a local MK.IV as a boon to property values.
    We had a thread on here relating to them...

    Ah, it's the public tanks one (though I thought there was also another thread about one in a specific location)- Chad turned up a list by using this search engine - 'ww1 tank' throws out a few:
    The UK National Inventory of War Memorials - UKNIWM Home > Search the Memorials

    Not found the Deal one yet though.
     
  6. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    As has already been stated, many tanks were presented to towns all over the country in the years after WW1 - 1919/20 is likely. Many of them however are long gone, some in particular were used for scrap during WW2

    I do remember reading a few threads on them over on the GWF (great war forum)

    The only one I have seen in recent years is at Ashford, Kent

    [​IMG]


    EDIT: having just had a quick look on t'Internet, this site suggests the Ashford Tank is the only one left, and they were all scrapped in the 20s and 30s - not sure how true that is

    Projects - Friends of the Lincoln Tank


    EDIT2: some info on the Ashford tank, and some more details on 'the presentation tanks'

    Ashford.gov.uk - The Tank
     
  7. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    As has already been stated, many tanks were presented to towns all over the country in the years after WW1 - 1919/20 is likely. Many of them however are long gone, some in particular were used for scrap during WW2

    I do remember reading a few threads on them over on the GWF (great war forum)

    The only one I have seen in recent years is at Ashford, Kent

    [​IMG]


    EDIT: having just had a quick look on t'Internet, this site suggests the Ashford Tank is the only one left, and they were all scrapped in the 20s and 30s - not sure how true that is

    Projects - Friends of the Lincoln Tank


    EDIT2: some info on the Ashford tank, and some more details on 'the presentation tanks'

    Ashford.gov.uk - The Tank

    Outside of museums etc I think that is correct: the Ashford tank is the only 'public' 1st war tank left.

    H
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    There's a handful in Russia as public memorials.
    And I'm not sure 'Deborah', the dug-up Cambrai Mk. IV really qualifies as being in a museum, more of a covered memorial:
    www.tank-cambrai.com
     
  9. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    We're wondering off the trophy tanks handed out by the war savings, hopefully we'll return to them, but...
    That's one of Bovington's real claims to fame; nowhere else in the world can you browse through such a fine collection of WW1 Tanks. And even sit inside one, to have a bit of a think about what it must have been like.
    Now if only the Aussies would lend them 'Mephisto' (The sole genuine A7V survivor) to complete the set, we'd have something even more worth a visit :D.

    Back on track.
    Lovely poster promoting 'The Tank Tour' carried out by the War Savings Committee as an earlier part of their business, when the machines were tru ndled round the country raising cash. (sourced from the Library of Congress, who seem to have a nice collection of images of British WSC posters) :
    World War one - Economic & industrial aspects --Great Britain

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    We're wondering off the trophy tanks handed out by the war savings, hopefully we'll return to them, but...
    That's one of Bovington's real claims to fame; nowhere else in the world can you browse through such a fine collection of WW1 Tanks. And even sit inside one, to have a bit of a think about what it must have been like.
    Now if only the Aussies would lend them 'Mephisto' (The sole genuine A7V survivor) to complete the set, we'd have something even more worth a visit :D.

    Back on track.
    Lovely poster promoting 'The Tank Tour' carried out by the War Savings Committee as an earlier part of their business, when the machines were tru ndled round the country raising cash. (sourced from the Library of Congress, who seem to have a nice collection of images of British WSC posters) :
    World War one - Economic & industrial aspects --Great Britain

    [​IMG]

    That is a nice poster. I was also impressed by the 'Lend your Country Five Shillings and Crush the Germans' poster in the Library of Congress Collection. Why are the Americans so good about getting stuff on line?
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Why are the Americans so good about getting stuff on line?
    Shaming isn't it; a great selection of British posters, made available by the septics.
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    This thread reminds me of a WW1 tank used as a Memorial on a concrete plinth situated in Windermere.
    As a young boy in the late 50's I remember trips by train to Windermere and when walking down the main road towards Boness there was a small Memorial Park with the Tank situated on the left hand side of the road.

    This link AFTER THE CONFLICT - Cumbrian War Memorials: Great War Tanks in Cumbria and elsewhere

    Shows a WW1 tank being cut up well before the date I mentioned.

    Anyone out there that can confirm that I am not going crazy:D

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. BRI54

    BRI54 Junior Member

    DSCF6379.JPG British tank Britannia on 5th ave New york , to aid Liberty Loan Drive

    {The First World War - A PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY} 1933 Daily Express Publications.

    DSCF6381.JPG British tanks (1).JPG

    This book is a record from start to finnish of the great war from both sides, Most of the pictures have very few words to them.
    Brian
     

    Attached Files:

  17. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi,

    As a fairly regular visitor (patient) to Lincoln Hospital I noticed a photograph of a bed called "The Tank Bed".

    Next time I'm in I'll try and get a snapshot.


    Regards, Mick D.
     
  18. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Lurking in the corner of a photograph accompanying a Wail story on Clifford's Tower in York.
    Sponson-less Mkiv by the looks.
    Maybe where the Yorvik red brick buildings are now. Maybe the Castle Museum grounds.
    Too small a screen to check properly.
    Screenshot_20180428-044721-01.jpeg

    Edit.
    Tell a lie. I see sponsons.
    A girl?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
    Owen likes this.
  19. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    We had a very quick run round the Musem of Lincolnshire Life last weekend. I hadn't realised it was housed in the old militia barracks - it was worth it just for that - but the main draw was to have a look at Flirt II / Daphne. It may not be truly 'public' but it's free to access. Having been loaned to the city by Bovvy it's sort of in the spirit of the thread.
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Nice piece on Kings Lynn.
    (Mk1 maybe unlikely, but have not looked properly.)

    King’s Lynn Tank
     

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