Date of death

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by dbf, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Whilst whittling down my Guards' lists I saw this entry... what struck me were the dates.

    Guardsman DENNIS WILLIAM HENRY HEALEY 5110516, 2nd Bn., Welsh Guards who died age 21 between 24 May 1940 and 08 November 1940
    Son of William Healey, and of Hettie Melona Healey, of Rugby, Warwickshire.
    Remembered with honour ST. MARTIN-BOULOGNE COMMUNAL CEMETERY
    :poppy:

    So I am wondering if anyone else has come across such a wide - or even wider - parameter for date of death in other records?
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Diane,
    perhaps a definitive D.O.D. for your man would be in WO 361/52.

    The C.W.G.C. seem not to have caught up with this group of Files that have been Released in recent years by the M.O.D. yet.
     
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Brian - many thanks for this tip; file number noted.

    Owen, that certainly is a very wide gap, yes unfortunately a lot of BEF seem to be like this, don't they? Thanks for explaining the two dates, didn't know how exactly they worked out the second one, but that makes sense.
    D
     
  5. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    So I am wondering if anyone else has come across such a wide - or even wider - parameter for date of death in other records?

    There are over 10,000 with date ranges, most seem to be a only few days, but over 1600 have the range 03/09/1939-31/12/1947 - mostly in the far east region. These must be due to poor (or none, or lost) record keeping, rather than missing.
     
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  6. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    There is another oddity that can be deceiving if you are not aware.

    I had an enquiry regarding a P.O.W. who went missing in Germany in May 1945.
    His D.O.D. is given as last date he was seen and as no recognisable remains were recovered for Burial he is remembered where he last Served.

    El Alamein.
     
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  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Geoff and Brian,
    Super replies, thank you both.

    Was hoping for a more definitive reply Geoff and you came up trumps. Those dates can't get any wider.

    and Brian, again your remark shows that nothing can be taken for granted. I can follow the logic, but the idea of visiting a memorial on a continent different from where he was presumed to have died ...
     
  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    With this information from CWGC tombstones,it is particularly interesting to account for a unit being in a given area,some passing through, in many cases.

    In the chaos of war,particularly during a retreat such as that suffered by the British Army at Dunkirk and the general withdrawal of the BEF from France there was a large number of unacknowledged casualities, due to the reporting difficulties at the time and these were listed as missing until confirmed as dead or were reported as survivors.It was only after their bodies were found and the Protecting Power (Switzerland) notified by the German authorities of the circumstances of the finding of a body and the location of internment that the British Government by information supplied by the Protecting Power were able to pass on information to the next of kin.

    Of course some are not recorded by name but as "Known unto God". Consequently,many next of kin would be notified that their son or daughter was "missing",then finally and this could be some considerable time, when all avenues of inquiry had been exhausted, would be notified as "missing presumed dead".

    The withdrawal of the BEF and its trek through to the channel ports, to the Brittany ports and south west France is marked by those who lie in cemeteries,some with the actual date of death known and close to the date of the operation to withdraw from France and others who are believed to have fallen within the two dates within the time recorded as missing and the date of locating the body.

    Regarding "missing" it reminds me of our next door neighbour who was in France with RAF and was one of those who treked to south west France for an exit port,no doubt under orders and was,I believe, "declared missing" to his parents.Much later than the general evacuation from France, he turned up at Plymouth and was among those who were lucky to be on the last ship to leave France from Point de Grave in the Medoc.
     
  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Thank HR for the explanation and for the story about your neighbour.
    I read about one man who arrived home just before the notification to his family that he was missing.
     

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