D Day Landing Craft Markings

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Noel Burgess, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Welcome to the forum Ed (as I suppose it is?),

    Firstly, I would strongly suggest that you edit your post and remove your email address, unless you want it to be retrieved by junk mail robots or worse... Forum members will still be able to contact you via the Personal Messenger which will notify you of any such PM, if you have activated this function.

    Secondly, a direct link to the video would have helped, because I think you made a typo: the actual title is I believe "Sicily Invasion, Naval Activity H1684-02.mp4", to be found here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj1kFLd-LdA

    Yes, that's LCI(L) 13 all right around 6:40. Just before that, around 6:20, the mass of LCI(L) is the same as on the first photo here:
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/15/150016.htm

    Another appearance of LCI(L) 13 at Bizerte here:
    http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675066349_bomb-wreckage_wrecked-ships-in-harbor_German-prisoners-walk_World-War-II

    I suppose that you have already read all this thread, which contains lots of info on her D Day role? I'll see what else I have and will let you know.

    Michel
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  2. PEASLEE, Charles E., USNR, SM3/c Service Number 606 48 44, enlisted 12 Mar 42 at Boston, Mass.

    Received by LCI(L) 13 on 1 Nov 42 from RS, NYD, Phila., Pa:
    Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1942 - Page 3.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1942 - Page 5.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1943 - Page 5.jpg

    Rated SM 2/c 1 Apr 43:
    Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1943 - Page 10.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1943 - Page 13.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1943 - Page 22.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1943 - Page 30.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1944 - Page 5.jpg

    Rated SM 1c 1 May 44:
    Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1944 - Page 11.jpg Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1944 - Page 13.jpg

    Transferred 21 Aug 44 to LCI(L) Flotilla Eighteen FFT USA:
    Navy Muster Rolls - LCI(L) 13 - 1944 - Page 19.jpg

    Michel
     
  3. epeaslee

    epeaslee New Member

    Thanks for the information, I took your advice and edited my post.
    I am new to the forum world and I appreciate your advice and the information that you have posted.
     
  4. John Redell

    John Redell Member

    Sent this to epeaslee already. The rest of you may find it interesting:

    Flotilla 2 Commander Admiral L. S. Sabin kept these "Battle Notes" written in a letter to a Naval Officer friend (Commander D.C. Varion, Commander Landing Craft Group N.O.B. Norfolk, VA) on March 13,1943. This is regarding the fotilla's initial Atlantic crossing. Gives a pretty vivid idea what it must have been like to ride out winter storms in these little, slow-moving, thrown-together, flat-bottomed monstrosities.
    _____________________



    Dear Don,

    Remembering that you asked me to drop you a line after sailing the sea for awhile, I hasten (after days, nights, weeks and months) to do so. I'm not quite sure you, as the Assistant Chief of Staff, have read my first official report sent from the first port of call. You will have the dubious pleasure of reading another one before, I hope, too long. This is merely a readable missive "from me to you".

    I ought to select a title for what follows: something like "Cowboys of the Sea" or "Roughing it on the Deep" or some equally fantastic but truly metaphorical title. On second thought I might call it "Sailors without Guts." Did you ever hear about sailors with all the courage in the world but no guts? If you haven't you will, because my sailors lost all their guts twenty-four hours after sailing.

    Well, to begin with a background. You will remember that I reported from the Pacific Area with no idea what this racket was about. You will also remember that I told you I had tried to get a squadron or even a division of DO's, but my friends in Washington just laughed; a sneering laugh, too. Destroyers were too rugged; duty was too tough in the "boats" for an old man of 43. The Navy Department just couldn't consider such a request from officers my age.

    So what? So this-I am ordered to command a flotilla of "boats" one-half the size of DDs and what's more to ride on one of them as my Flagship. You are probably smiling, my friend, having been in on the inception of this organization. You know, of course, how interestingly stuffy, cramped and uncomfortable they are. "Tough and sturdy." You know, as Training Officer, they are supposed to be (and are) sea-going and expendable. But there are a few things you don't know which I found out day after day and night after night and week after week.

    So we went to sea. The lawyers, the bankers, the garage mechanics, the farmers, the salesmen-and me. In our little spit kits, we struck out boldly if not fearfully. We hit rain. We hit fog. We hit sleet. We hit snow. We hit storms. We even found sunshine and starry nights. But no romance! Days passed. Nights passed. Weeks passed. But we went rolling along over the bounding main at the super-colossal speed of six knots. Day after day, night after night, week after week.

    Did I say bounding along? An understatement. Bounding and pounding: twisting and twirling; rolling, bucking, and pitching. Never before have I seen such unrhythmic motion. The cowboy who rode bucking broncos in the rodeo for fifteen minutes won a prize. Fifteen minutes! Nobody won any prize in this outfit for staying with these broncos doing everything but hand springs on the high seas for not minutes, not hours, not even days, but weeks.

    The majority were seasick-but not the old man who was too decrepit to go on a Destroyer! They were so seasick most of them couldn't get out of their bunks. Some couldn't even move except when they were thrown bodily by this tossing stallion from one side of the ship to the other. Day after day, night after night, week after week. And the food-nice delicious fresh food which spoiled because fresh food always does. So we ate canned food, and drank stale water. So it didn't make any difference. Most of them were too sick to eat anyhow, and the few "old salts" who didn't get seasick were enjoying the delicious odor of diesel fumes mixed with the equally delectable stench of vomit, the refuse of those poor seasick devils too weak to clean up their own messes.

    Day after day; night after night; week after week. Tossing, turning and twisting. Pitching, pounding and rolling. Up by the bow, down by the stern. Over on your side into the sea. Straining, battered and bruised. Torn and tattered.

    Darken at night so the submarines won't get you. Look out for pot shots at night from one of the big ships because you look like a sub. Black night. Can't see the ship ahead, astern or abeam. We're all too small. Little ships with big men. Look out for collisions. What's that on your starboard bow? A sub? Hell no, another spitkit. But don't turn on your running lights when they're in trouble. A sub couldn't possibly see those great big red lights. So keep dark. No collisions, please. The water's too cold. It's deep, and there are only two life rafts on these little gadgets. Well, it's only ten hours until daylight. Hang on boys. Clutch the grab rail with one hand; hold your glasses with the other. Wrap your legs around the compass stand, peer into the darkness and pray, brother, pray. God-the son of a gun missed us. Ahead standard! Night after night, week after week.

    Well. There's breakfast in the morning. Sorry-no breakfast unless you fix it. The cook's too sick. Oh well who hasn't fried an egg before?

    Stand in line to use the head. Cuss because you caught your finger in the door. Who the hell is staring back at you from the mirror? A dirty looking tramp. Stubble beard, bloodshot eyes. Dirty and dumpy. Frizzled and filthy. My gawd is that you? How about a bath? Sorry, no bath. Wastes water. So you continue to stink. Day after day, week after week.

    How's the Gyro? Pretty good today. Only a hundred and thirty-five degrees out. Magnetic is O.K. No heeling magnet ever made could correct contortions of the cantankerous camels. What's the course? Somewhere between north and east. Why are you reading South, Compass? Compass error. That's simple. You figure out why.

    Got a star sight this morning. Turned the sextant upside down and watched a sinking sun jump from the sky to the' horizon. You can’t take a sight that way. No? Who says so? You're standing on your-head most of the time anyway. Never mind, it won't be long now. Just day after day, night after night and week after week.

    You watch the kids who are manning these things: officers and men. A year ago they were lawyers, accountants, advertising men, farmers, grocery clerks, soda jerks, and garage mechanics. Not so now. They're sailor men. They stick to it. Those who can still move, struggle to their stations with a bucket. The signalman pukes in the bucket in a steady rhythm with the flashing of a message. The steersman holds the ship as as best he can on a course while vomiting in the bucket between yaws of the ship. Day after day, night after night and week after week.

    They've got no guts left, these kids. They've spilled them all. But they've got what it takes. Fine spirit. Game guys. Big men in little ships. American youth, learning the hardest way of all, on the high seas in a spitkit through the war zone. They take it all in stride and somehow (God only knows) they manage to smile. Somehow, also, Don, you go below feeling "that's why we'll win this war. No one can beat that kind of stuff!"

    Well, there it is. The object can be summed up quite simply. I've said it officially and I've said it to you on the assumption that you are still on your old job. Don't sail this craft with slow speed convoys. Put them with an eleven or twelve knot set-up or send them alone with a long-legged escort (preferably with a sea-going tug to look out for stragglers). And unless you can improve communications, don't send a flotilla all at once. Send a group at a time. But, above all, don't inflict twenty odd days at sea on any of them.

    My regards to the Commodore, Percifield, Standley and any others who may still be there.

    Yours, L.S. Sabin Jr.

    P.S.: Don't tell me Columbus didn't have this much. It makes me mad.
     
  5. John Redell

    John Redell Member

    LCI(L) development:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzPktj-0t8U
     
  6. From my post #107 above:
    "In the vicinity we can see LCI(L) 164 also disembarking troops. Alas the Serial is not visible this time"

    I am very happy to say that I was plainly wrong here! The Serial is (partially) visible, only I did not see it! The LTIN board is the same and carried at the same location on LCI(L) 164 during both Exercise FABIUS and D Day:
    LCI(L) 164 (313) Ex FABIUS vs D Day.jpg

    We therefore now have an updated Group 11 as follows:

    LCI(L) 126 (318)
    LCI(L) 164 (313)
    LCI(L) 165 (311 or 312?)
    LCI(L) 169 (319)
    LCI(L) 300 (317)
    LCI(L) 378 (312 FABIUS, but if LCI(L) 165 was carrying the KSLI, then 378 was not)
    LCI(L) 380 (311 FABIUS - 311 or 312) - probably 311

    The remaining two craft probably among LCI(L) 171, 181, 377 and 379 (but not LCI(L) 179 which was assigned as a "tug" craft).

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017

  7. Michel

    I found this old post from you from 2015, which is relevant to my attempt to identify the boats that 2RUR marching troops crossed the channel in.

    I have seen your spreadsheet of the landing tables, but all the serial numbers match the LTIN numbers.

    Where did you get the connection between the craft numbers and the LTINs? I don't see the connection between LCI(L)-375 and LTIN 389 in the tables. It may be that I have misunderstood the headings.

    thanks

    Brian.
     
  8. I did point this post (among others) to you in my response to one of your enquiries back in March.

    I thought I had already answered this question in this other previous post too.
    Yes, indeed, "Serial Number" is the same as "LTI Number" but is not the Pennant or Hull number.

    The few connections I do have between Hull number and LTIN come from photographs, and/or from recouping other information, just as can be seen from many posts in this present thread.
    Do you not have "375F" in column "Pennant" opposite LTIN 389 in your landing tables?
    This, as explained in the "Guide" sheet, and as stated in the post you just quoted, means that LCI(L) 375 had the LTIN 389 during Exercise FABIUS. It does NOT mean that it necessarily had the same LTIN for D Day. In fact, the account by Paddy White says just the opposite – but might not be correct.

    Michel
     
  9. Ah, thanks. I see 375F now. It was hidden by the screen freeze in my version. That all makes much more sense now. Thanks.
     
  10. Michel

    Sorry to be a pain on this, but can I check how you worked out the frames in the Pathé News footage was Group 16 and how you worked out the numbers?

    I have reviewed the old posts and can’t see how you have worked it out.

    Thanks (and apologies for the repeated questions).

    Brian.
     
  11. It's all right Brian, this is a good opportunity to try and consolidate all the info regarding Group 16 which is spread over a number of posts scattered within this thread. I will nevertheless have to repeatedly refer to these posts, because some of the reasoning just cannot be further summarised without becoming even more obscure!

    In all what follows I will use underlining for data fully confirmed by photos and italics for data I consider probable, but not confirmed. Numbers shown between brackets are Landing Table Index Numbers (LTINs or Craft Serials), not to be confused with the Hull number or Pennant (even though in Group 16 LTINs and HUll numbers have the annoying habit to be similar!).

    1. ONEAST/S7B - App I - "Deployment at the Lowering Position" indicates that Group 16, carrying the marching troops of the Reserve Brigade (9 Br Inf Bde), was made up of nine craft with LTINs between (388) and (396) and was to sail from the Lowering Position with disposition as follows. I have added the units corresponding to each LTIN (from the Landing Table):

    Port Column__________.__Starboard Column
    QUEEN RED____________QUEEN WHITE

    (394)__}_________________(388)__}
    (395)__} 2 LINCOLNS__ _ __(389)__} 1 KOSB
    (396)__}_________________(390)__}

    ________________________(391)__}
    ________________________(392)__} 2 RUR
    ________________________(393)__}

    We know that the craft on British Pathé clip 2115.10 frames 2115_10_63 to 109 belong to Group 16 because 2115_10_79 (for example) clearly shows the LTIN (395) on LCI(L) 385 (LCI(L) 384 is also visible in the background):
    2115_10_79.jpg

    2. Then, various frames show several Hull numbers, obviously sailing together as part of the same Group:
    2115_10_63 shows LCI(L) 390 & 376:
    2115_10_63 - LCI(L) 390, 376 - ADM 1259.jpg
    2115_10_82 shows LCI(L) 375 on the starboard quarter of LCI(L) 385:
    2115_10_82.jpg
    and 2115_10_87 shows LCI(L) 389:
    2115_10_87.jpg

    3. In addition to this photographic evidence, we have an account by Robin Fowler stating that LCI(L) 387 was carrying 1 KOSB (see Post #134). If this is true, then LCI(L) 387 must have carried one of the three LTINs alloted to 1 KOSB, namely LTINs (388) to (390).

    4. We now have seven out of the nine craft which composed Group 16:
    LCI(L) 375, 376, 384, 385, 387, 389 & 390

    Three of these craft were part of 265 LCI(L) Flotilla, which comprised eight LCI(L): 374, 381, 382, 383, 385, 386, 389 & 390
    while the other four were part of 266 LCI(L) Flotilla, made up of seven LCI(L): 241, 375, 376, 384, 387, 388 & 391

    Among the fifteen craft of the combined 265 & 266 Flotilla, only one – LCI(L) 241 – is of the first series, all the others being of the second series that started with Hull number 351.

    On 2115_10_109 we see a craft which is definitely an LCI(L) of the first series. If, as highly likely, this craft is also part of Group 16, then it is very probable that it is also part of either 265 of 266 Flotillas, and is therefore LCI(L) 241 (see beginning of Post #117).

    5. To find the ninth and last craft in Group 16, we'll refer to the Report by Allied Naval CiC Expeditionary Force on Op Neptune, which says that all the craft of 266 Flotilla, except LCI(L) 391, were attached to 265 Flotilla for the initial landing, i.e. that LCI(L) 241, 375, 376, 384, 387 & 388 were attached to 265 Flotilla.
    Since the first five of these six have now been identified as part of Group 16, we may reasonably assume that the last one, namely LCI(L) 388, was also part of Group 16 and is therefore our ninth craft.

    We now have the Hull numbers for our nine craft in Group 16, three of which are not fully confirmed by a photo (241, 387 & 388):
    LCI(L) 241, 375, 376, 384, 385, 387, 388, 389 & 390
    but we only have one confirmed Hull number/LTIN match: LCI(L) 389 = LTIN 395, noted LCI(L) 389 (395)

    6. Now let's look at the respective positions of the craft in the film clip. There are three craft in the port column (LCI(L) 390, 385 & 389, in this order - all three belonging to 265 Flotilla), and six in the starboard column (all belonging to 266 Flotilla if our assumptions are correct).

    This disposition of 3 + 6 craft matches that specified by ONEAST/S7B - App I, which is logical because the craft are seen approching the LP (see Post #128). We'll therefore assume that the craft in the clip also follow the LTIN order as per this document.

    The left column should therefore be:

    LCI(L) 390 = (394)
    LCI(L) 385 = (395) (confirmed by 2115_10_79)
    LCI(L) 389 = (396)

    7. The right column is unfortunately much less clear. We can however try and narrow down the possible choices:

    The ONEAST plans further state that LCI(L) 376 was planned to have 266 Flotilla Officer on board. She was therefore probably the Group Leader, which normally carried the first LTIN in the Group, here LTIN (388). This would also be logical because the craft of 266 Flotilla were the more numerous (six out of nine) in Group 16. I will therefore assume that LCI(L) 376 was to lead the right column and to carry LTIN (388). Thus:

    LCI(L) 376 = (388)

    Furthermore, if we believe Robin Fowler (cf point 3 above), we should also have:

    LCI(L) 387 = (388), (389) or (390)
    but since we have already tentatively alloted (388) to LCI(L) 376, only two choices remain:

    LCI(L) 387 = (389) or (390)

    The only additional info we have so far is the account by Paddy White (see Post #122) saying that LCI(L) 375 was carrying 2 RUR, thus one of the three LTINs (391), (392) or (393). However, IWM photo H38264 shows LCI(L) 375 with the LTIN (389) during Exercise FABIUS (see end of Post #117), which I will note (389F), so a measure of doubt subsists:

    LCI(L) 375 = (389F) = (391), (392) or (393)

    There remain LCI(L) 241, 384 & 388 to which must correspond three of the LTINs of the right column, less (388) again, thus among (389) to (393).

    8. In summary, my current assessment of the Hull number/LTIN match for Group 16 is:

    LCI(L) 390__(394)_______LCI(L) 376_____(388) Flotilla Leader
    LCI(L) 385__(395)_______LCI(L) 387_____(389) or (390)
    LCI(L) 389__(396)_______LCI(L) 241__}
    ______________________LCI(L) 384__} _ (389), (390), (391), (392) or (393)
    ______________________LCI(L) 388__}
    ______________________LCI(L) 375_____(389F) - (391), (392) or (393)

    Michel
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  12. Michel

    Wow! Fabulous analysis. As a Forensic Accountant I really appreciate the detail.

    I have some analysis of my own below.

    Re LCI(L)-241, there are two pictures on NavSource of this LCI, which show the source as "Richard Farram for his father Herbert Farram". NavSource is not the most reliable, as it just records what others tell them, but it is a start.

    https://www.navsource.org/archives/10/15/150241.htm

    Richard Farram has also posted letters from his father on a BBC website and was looking for information on LSI 241 and 245. It possible that NavSource have mixed up the LSI and LCI reference, or that Richard Farram did so himself.

    However, the link below to Herbert Farram’s letter, refers to the boat being hit by a mine, and the one below it from Pinterest is the same picture as the first one purporting to be from the deck of LCI(L)-241, but says it is from the deck of LCI(L)-375 which was, of course, referred to in Paddy White’s account as having been hit by a mine.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - D-Day +1: Letter Home

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1600&bih=738&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=VB8MW-yeEOrIgAaM87yQBw&q=LCI%28L%29-375&oq=LCI%28L%29-375&gs_l=img.3...4757.4757.0.4949.1.1.0.0.0.0.46.46.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.XAPl7c3HnUg#imgrc=pLL5wR2nvnP_pM:

    Interestingly, NavSource lists 6 craft as carrying 2RUR to the beach, which is impossible as they were only on three LCIs, but 5 of the 6 reconcile to your list of likely craft in the starboard column of the tables for the lowering position:

    Per Michel’s analysis Per NavSource

    LCI(L) 376 LCI(L) 376
    LCI(L) 387 LCI(L) 387
    LCI(L) 241
    LCI(L) 384 LCI(L) 384
    LCI(L) 388 LCI(L) 388
    LCI(L) 375 LCI(L) 375

    The one that does not match is LCI(L)-391, and NavSource does not have LCI(L)-241 as part of flotilla 266, but with no reference to 2RUR.

    All show the source as LT. Harry Willis (via Syd Berrett), but NavSource have no further details, or contact details. It is possible that the supplier of the information was describing the starboard column, rather than 2RUR.

    I am pretty sure my Grandfather and Great-Uncle were not on LCI(L)-375 as my grandfather’s letters home do not refer to the craft being hit by a mine and it seems unlikely that he would not mention that.

    I know that they were on the same boat, and that the leading parties of their Companies (names) laid ropes for them to follow to the beach.

    The Fabius landing tables have 2RUR on three LCIs but there is a similar number of troop son each one, so there is no clue to which group may have been on a smaller craft (in fact all seem to be over their max capacity!).

    So my conclusion from all of this is that my grandfather and great-uncle were on one of the following craft:

    LCI(L)-241
    LCI(L)-384
    LCI(L)-388

    If I place any reliance on the information given to NavSource, then I would eliminate LCI(L)-241 as having no reference to 2RUR, meaning that 375, 384 and 388 would have been the three carrying 2RUR and therefore I would conclude either 384 or 388.

    I am still bothered by the landing tables and lowering position tables all suggesting they landed on Queen White, when everything I have read suggests that 2RUR landed on Queen Red, but I guess I am just going to have to live with that one! I guess that there is a possibility that, as they were the back 3 of 6, and there was no back 3 on the Queen Red side, they may have moved across. The two pictures you provided of LCI(L)-385 with 375 and 384 on its starboard side, might support that.

    Thanks again

    Brian.
     
  13. I have already addressed the issue of this photo shot from the after bridge of an LCI(L), and showing the blazing "La Brèche" villa, in my Post #115. The LCI(L) is a craft of a second series, thus not LCI(L) 241. There is also no evidence whatsover of it being LCI(L) 375.
    This photo has been claimed by crew members of different craft as showing their respective LCI(L), and has also been assigned to various units depending on the writer of the caption. Maybe one of them is correct, but so far there is no way we can decide which one is.

    It is indeed possible, since Harry Willis was LCI(L) 375's 1st Lieutenant on D Day. But I think that he simply quoted the craft he could remember in his Flotilla, and assumed they all carried the same unit as he himself was carrying, i.e. 2 RUR. But that is still interesting in that it seems to confirm Paddy White's assertion that LCI(L) 375 carried 2 RUR. I would however be very cautious, because this statement might come from the same single (and possibly mistaken) source, instead of from two independent sources.

    Again, I would not give too much credit on what has been written about which Beach they landed, because the War Diary, for example, certainly does not say anything that may help us decide.

    As for the actual Hull numbers of the craft carrying 2 RUR, perhaps a high resolution version of some of the frames in IWM film ADM 1259 (which is the original film from which BP 2115.10 was made) might tell us more by revealing at least some additional numbers written on LTIN boards ...

    Michel
     
  14. Thanks again.
     
  15. Hi Michel

    I have a new lead on the Queen Red/White question.

    The war diary of the 9th Field ambulance says that the "LCI craft landed at 12:00 hrs on Queen White beach immediately opposite the assembly area”

    The landing tables have 9 Fd Amb on three boats (the battalion HQ boats of each of the battalions):

    · 389 with KOSB
    · 392 with 2RUR
    · 395 with 2 Lincolns

    We know that the Lincolns were due to land on Queen Red and both 1KOSB and 2RUR were due to land on Queen White.


    Both 2RUR and 2 Lincolns war diaries refer to landing at 12:00 hrs. 1 KOSB is not helpful as it does not have any detail.

    Most of the men of 9 Fd Amb (75 versus 39) and all of the equipment (38 bikes versus none) were due to be on the two boats due to land on Queen White.

    It is therefore reasonable to assume that whoever wrote the war diary would write about the two boats carrying most of the men and bikes, rather than the single one due to land on Queen Red.

    The 9th Field ambulance war diary also says “Assembly area located at road junction 080809 – sheet St Aubin”. Are you able to pinpoint this, as it will show more accurately where they landed as the war diary says they landed immediately opposite?

    I do also have some new contrary evidence as well! I have today returned from Normandy and walked along both Queen Red and Queen White. The 2RUR war diary says that they landed on "a wide sandy beach fringed with sand dunes". The dunes thin out as you move West (and did on D-Day based on aerial photos). Queen White had very shallow dunes and Red had deeper. I have a photo of 2RUR on the beach and found a spot that looks almost identical. That was on Queen Red. I am not sure the dunes are thick enough on Queen White for that photo to have been on White.

    As an aside, on my Normandy trip, I went to the cemetery where my grandfather and great-uncle are buried and there was a group in RUR colours performing a ceremony with bagpipes and bugle. The ceremony was lead by none other than Bill McConnell, who was in 1RUR. I spoke to him and got his daughter's contact details so that I can meet up with them next year for the 75th anniversary.

    Brian.
     
  16. 9 Fd Amb Assembly Area is shown as No.8 in Trace 1 to 2 RUR Operation Order No.1 dated May 1944 (cf this post). Overlaying very roughly this trace on a 1:50,000 map shows that it was indeed at "road junction 080809", at the corner of the littoral road and the road leading inland to Hermanville-sur-Mer:
    9 Fd Amb Assy Area - Trace over Map.jpg

    This is right where these troops are standing on B5039:
    [​IMG] D-DAY - BRITISH FORCES DURING THE INVASION OF NORMANDY 6 JUNE 1944. © IWM (B 5039) IWM Non Commercial License

    The 9 Fd Amb Assembly Area was thus technically located inland of QUEEN GREEN Beach, just West of the limit with QUEEN WHITE, but QUEEN WHITE seeems to have been extended slightly to the West to include Exit 11 (the extension to the beach of the road leading to Hermanville) and a bit more.

    This fits with the LCI(L) landing opposite the blazing La Brèche villa, as per the two photos in various posts and which I cannot resist posting again here:
    69.1 - LCI(L) opp La Breche - m168-10b_lci_375 - RUR Museum, Belfast.jpg
    69.2 - La Breche on fire, PW - 0026.jpg
    LCI(L) La Breche vs B5039.jpg

    Could you post this photo? We might be able to confirm the location. The mention of "sand dunes" is not in itself of much use, since the entire length of QUEEN RED, QUEEN WHITE and QUEEN GREEN Beaches were lined with dunes, although, as you noticed, they did differ quite a lot in height and depth.

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  17. The two pictures are below. I noticed when I was there that the dunes at the edge of Queen White are much steeper than on Queen Red, and the pictures you posted seem to confirm that they were at the time as well.
    IMG_0025(1).jpg IMG_0025(1).jpg 2_rur_sword_beach.jpg
     

  18. That's really helpful. I have not seen the extract from the 2RUR briefing overlaid with a map before and that answers a question I had about why they looked like they were walking inland on other pictures at this location. I can now see that they moved further inland than I thought before they were diverted to Periers Ridge.

    I was at precisely the point of the photo above on Friday.
     
  19. Congratulations on your spotting! This is indeed the same place, give or take a few yards, as the D Day photo. Is this pure luck or have you (as I did) used additional information/photos to locate the spot, because the D Day photo as you show it certainly is not sufficient for this.

    However, I cannot for the life of me see how you say that it shows 2 RUR?

    Michel
     

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