D Day Hertfordshire Yeomanry

Two wrongs don't make a right! As there seems to be some documentary proof, it should be possible to get CWGC to correct Capt Platt's record to show 3 Bombardment Unit - at least they won't have to change his headstone.

 

From an inspection report (guns only, not all vehicles - sorry) dated 25 July 1944

 

[SIZE=10.5pt]The CGWC have been inconsistent in how they have categorised COBU soldiers who died in operation Overlord. [/SIZE]
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[SIZE=10.5pt]Of the six COBU [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]FOB[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] officers who died on Day or D+1 only Captain Robert Hunter, and whose glider disappeared on D Day, is identified by the CWGC as a member of a COBU – but No 3 COBU and not [/SIZE]C Tp 1 COBU which I understand provided the FOB parties for 6 AB Division , .
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[SIZE=10.5pt]Captain Platt from B Tp 1 COBU is inaccurately described as an officer of 86 Herts Yeomanry, a unit which he neither served in nor was attached, and technically may be buried under the wrong cap badge.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=10.5pt]Captain Peter Dixon and Tomas Williamson seem to have been recorded as members of 41 RM and No 4 Commando respectively, which were the supported arms and not their attached units. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Captain Jack Lee of A Tp 1 COBU is recorded as an officer of 14 Medium Regiment, which may have been his former regiment. (There was another thread on the forum about this man, started by an enquiry from a relative.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Captain Glyn Llewelleyn, of A troop 1 COBU who was killed supporting the Suffolks is not identified at all and one of the few war dead listed as listed as NK (Not Known) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] T[/SIZE]here is also a sprinkling of OR gunner dead with odd CWGC unit descriptions which might suggest that the ORs in the COBU have not been identified by CWGC. E.g. Gunner Mottram who died on 8th June and buried in Bayeux CWC is listed as unit NK. (How can someone who died in France on D+2 not have been part of an identified unit?)
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[SIZE=10.5pt]One of the principles of the CWGC that all graves are treated the same. It would be very wrong to suggest that any man’s death mattered more than any others. However, the CWGC gravestones and monuments also record the units with which the men and women served. If those are inaccurate it gives a false picture of the role and sacrifices made by the unit. . [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The role of the [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]FOB[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] parties was dangerous and demanded, skill, endurance fitness and courage beyond the norm. The mortality rate on D Day of six out of C 30 [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]FOB[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] parties is. 20%, a significantly worse survival rate than average for D Day landings. Given that C 130k men landed on D Day and the total D Day casualties were of the order of 10,000 which less than half died. The same role is currently fulfilled only by soldiers and sailors who undertake demanding selection and training and 148 battery are recognised as part of UK Special Forces. I think the relatives of these men ought to know the nature of the work for which they were undertaking when they died.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=10.5pt]When I find time I will write to CWGC. Before I do, can someone please check that I have not missed anything in the detail of the [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]FOB[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] Officers. [/SIZE]

 

Incredible statistics and very brave men. Plus some very interesting new information. Thanks Sheldrake.

Captain Platt is buried under a RA headstone. Do COBU have their own badge?

Dave

 

I take it that Thomas Williamson is the 'Capt P Williams' mentioned in Soldier Sailor as being killed by MG fire as he left his landing craft? There's no Capt P or T Williams listed on CWGC for June 1944.

A quick check on the RN COBU D-Day deaths mentioned in Soldier Sailor reads as follows:
Holloway L H - HMS Lizard
Broad W R - Bombardment Unit 3
Harrison J J - HMS Dundonald
Hibberd E F G - HM Boom Vessel 3C

Dealt with under D-Day but CWGC have as 08/06/44:
Cutler P B - HMS Victory IV

And one not mentioned in the book, but buried at Ranville so may have been with capt Hunter:
Porter S C - Bombardment Unit 3

 

Hi Idler,

Thank you for those. I will add the new ones and update those that I had listed that were incomplete to my database.
If you happen to come across any other lists of census numbers would you mind posting them or PM to me.
Thanks again.

cheers

Kevin

 

Hello Sheldrake,

I agree with the thrust of your Message #43, but I am not sure that a thread about an individual called Capt. Platt is the right place for it.

If you refer back to Message #23, I essentially asked the question how you would pigeon hole somebody to a branch of service called 'Combined Operations' as it didn't exist; it was a hybrid. The individuals were either serving in the Navy or Army. So, in Capt. Platt's case I believe he was probably a Royal Artillery (Army) Officer (of which parent regiment is not known) serving on attachment with COBU, attached to the 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment.

The fact that Capt. Platt is shown as serving with the 86th Field Regiment, RA, is either a convenient fiction, or maybe a fact i.e. it may just have been his parent regiment.

Why not start another thread about the unsatisfactory CWGC position vis a vis COBU personnel. You'd get my support?!

Best,

Steve.

 

Hi Steve,

I started with the quest for information about Platt, then had a sense of dejavu regarding the story about Jack Lee. By the time I had finished I had a draft for the CWGC and the RAI or RAHS, which probably merits its own thread.

Not listing the dead FOBs under COBU might make sense if there was any consistency, but there isn't.

The CWGC had an administrative mechanism for recording the service and cap badge of the soldiers and sailors in Combined Operations units as the "Regimentt" and "unitshipsquadron". The RN war dead from the COBU are listed as " RN" under "Regiment" and "No 3 Bombadment Unit" under "Unitsquadronship" Check R Tel Broad from Dixon's party killed on D Day. This is consistent with the way other Combined Operations units such as the Army Commandos are treated. Lee (and possibly Platt) might be listed under the units they served with before joining COBU, but Dixon and Williamson (I can't find a Williams either) are listed with the units they were supporting. For me the strongest evidence of it being an error is the exclusion of Llewelleyn, who is doucmented as the FOB for 1 Suffolks.

I am not 100% of some of my notes. Mine show 6 AB FOBs from C Troop 1 COBU. but this photo shows C/3 "HMS Pongo" and appears to have a suspiciously high proportion of soldiers with para cap badges. This looks like the course photo fro the extra FOBs raised for 6 AB Division in April 1944. http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/main.php?g2_view=panorama.Panorama&g2_itemId=18036

The other images seem to show FOB party 83 under Captain Burgess, who supported 1 Norfolks.

 

The plot thickens.

Still trying to make sense of it all!

Surely Capt. Platt must have had something to do with 86 Fd Regt because they mentioned him as being killed in their War Diary.

Maybe it was his original unit (although he does not appear else where in their records) or although he was attached to 5 EY for the landing he was observing for 86 Fd Regt. Sexton guns before and or after they landed in support of 5EY.

Dave

 

Maybe the CWGC can tell you? War diaries can mention all sorts of people with a range of relationships to the unit. The fact that one of 86 Fd 's officers, Robert Kiln took over some of the functions of the COBU after Capt. Platt was killed, might be a good reason to mention him by name. This might be his only to 86 Fd Regt, but enough to provide an answer for a burial registration unit puzzled enough by the COBU to give up completely with Capt Llewellyn.

 

*
Exactly right, Sheldrake!

You need Capt. Platt's service records, Dave. Based on the information we have gathered so far, the service records may be the only document that can provide certainty in respect of Capt. Platt's parent regiment...

Best,

Steve.

 

Thanks Sheldrake and Steve, I think you are right I will have to consider getting hold of Capt. Platts records when I get back to the UK.

I will post if I find out more.

Dave