Cuckmere Valley

This plaque commemorates the soldiers who died in this area and specifically in this field during
World War II. Their numbers are unknown but their memory lives on.

The following is a personal testimony from Corporal LESLIE EDWARDS 1920 - 2004, a local man
who served in the area and laid poppies on this spot every Remembrance Day until his death.

"I will never forget the day in 1940 when a Canadian company came to Cuckmere and pitched their
tents in this field. I was stationed here and knew that bombers regularly used this valley for
navigation purposes. I tried to tell the commanding officer but he was not interested in what I had to
say. Two mornings later the Messerschmitts arrived. Just as the sun was rising they came skimming
over the water and up the valley. Around Alfriston they banked hard and came back. Bearing down
on the tents they opened fire. Steam, soil and grass rose in front of them as bullets and bombs
entered the ground. All the young men in the marquees and bell tents were killed. The commanding
officer, who was shaving at the time in the middle coastguard cottage, died instantly when a shell
went through the wall that held his mirror"​

The valley still contains many remnants of WW2 architecture as the area was considered to be one of the potential locations for a German invasion.



Location Memorial

 

I must have been pretty close to this place in 1967 to 1969.
Pity I had no idea it was there. RIP
Stefan

 

Unfortunately, the story doesn't really fit. The coast here was defended by British units in 1940....and these were 'Messerschmitts' with machine guns, bombs and cannon. BF110 presumably ?

Memorial at Cuckmere Haven

 

Local historian Peter Longstaff-Tyrrell, who has researched and published books on the Second World War in Sussex, has investigated this story. After looking at war diaries of Canadian units in the vicinity at the time, coroner’s reports, CWGC records etc. he can find no evidence of this incident.

See: Ceremony rekindles questions Canadians' WWII deaths

 

If you need to read more then there is some info on this link - HyperWar: The Canadian Army 1939-1945: An Official Historical Summary [Chapter 2]

and also

Canada's Role in WWII
Canada entered the 1939-1945 War on 10th September 1939. Within two months the first contingents of Canadian troops arrived in the United Kingdom to supplement the British Expeditionary Forces (BEF). Forestalled by the evacuation of the British Army from Dunkirk and the Channel ports, Canada's role became one of defence of the British Isles


Theres never a canuck around when you need one

TD

 

Interesting document on Cuckmere Haven and its WW2 defence strategy

https://fsgfort.com/fortfinder/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2017/06/CUCKMERE-Haven-Defences.pdf

I would guess, much as the Thames estuary was used by the Luftwaffe that something like Cuckmere Valley/Haven could very easily be used as a 'landmark' for the Lutwaffe as much as it could be used by the RAF as a means of providing a location

It looks from the report an ideal place to land troops hence the amount of defensive work that went into it


THE INVASION THAT NEVER HAPPENED | Clare Flynn
Seven hundred bombs plus a good few flying bombs fell on the town – many of them dumped by the Luftwaffe after bombing raids on London before the return trip over the channel. Between 1942 and 43 it was a favourite target of “hit and run” raiders and was the most bombed town of the South coast. The town hosted thousands of Canadian soldiers from various regiments between 1941 and 1944

Once the threat of invasion was passed, Cuckmere Haven was the site of coastal defence and artillery training, including by the Canadian army

TD

 

IWM seems to have info on their site about but do not acknowledge any casualties

Commemorations

• Second World War (1939-1945)
  Total names on memorial: 0
  Served and returned: 0
  Died: 0
  Exact count: yes
  Information shown: Undefined
  Order of information: Undefined

Canadian Servicemen - WW2

Another here

In 2006 a cairn with plaque was erected in the open field to the left of the path approaching Cuckmere Haven. The origin is explained by the text, below.

British & Canadian researchers have subsequently found no evidence to substantiate Edwards' tragic tale.
Several Canadian companies were stationed at Cuckmere (one of several possible South Coast invasion sites) for various periods in WWII. There was an air attack in July 1942, but all survived. The memorial's inclusion here acknowledges its existence only, therefore.
SeaMIG - Other War Memorials

 

Any connection between the raid in Oct details and below??



TD

 

Well, I think the pillbox was real !!! The area still contains many WW relicts I believe, although I am not sure of anything anymore:
World War Two Coastal Defences at Cuckmere Haven | Culture24

And the Canadians were there, must be true, there's a photo:
History — Cuckmere Haven SOS (scroll down to article near bottom of page)

Perhaps even had tanks up on the cliffs?
Tank Roads on South Hill, Seaford Head, Seaford. © Kevin Gordon :: Geograph Britain and Ireland

Now that could be true:
THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45 | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)

Before posting I did look at the CWGC to see if any potential graves were there, having visited the cemetery before, I knew that there were many Canadian graves, but they are all WW1, perhaps that was a clue.

Oh well, as you can see the sun was shining yesterday so it was a great walk.

 

This memorial has been the bane of my life for over 10 years now. I uncovered the 'truth' and revealed what I knew then in a public talk back in 2010. An audience member took it upon themselves to try and publish their own (incorrect) version in the local press, based purely on their memory of my talk. They had also convinced themselves that a third soldier had been killed (records show only 2 died), despite my telling them this was incorrect. I managed to stop them publishing in 2010, but their version was eventually published in a national magazine in 2016.

This memorial issue exploded on Facebook a few weeks back, with my research being attributed to the author of the incorrect account. I've posted images below of my response to that Facebook thread; I decided not to copy and paste the text as I'd end up rewriting it in the context of this thread, and I simply don't have time and energy.

I had a response on FB from somebody involved with the memorial, who took exception to my using primary sources that didn't agree with the memorial plaque: "I suppose you think none of this happened too if it wasn't recorded in some official paper somewhere. Shame on you if so and the slur that it casts on their memory."

I hope you get the drift from all this; I'm not posting the Facebook URL as, again, I don't have the time/energy to have that can of worms opened up again right now. I fully expect this WW2Talk thread to kick-start a whole load of people trying to research this and there'll be more flak coming my way as a result.

I'm confident that I've indentified all the casualties involved and established some irrefutable facts surrounding the incident from primary archive sources. I have tried to get the monument rededicated, but it failed somewhere between hysteria and apathy on the part of others.

I will revisit this in due course, but as the recent FB thread showed me, the issue is still too raw.

 

On the subject of Cuckmere Haven's defences, we've done a lot of archaeological excavation and recording of them down the years.

Back in 2015 we excavated a pillbox that was buried in the flood bank:

This October I did a 20-minute slot in a webinar for the Council for British Archaeology's 'Festival of Archaeology':
My bit is about 17 mins in, but the whole thing is worth watching.

 

Here is one of them


TD

Casualty Details | CWGC

 

Lieutenant ROBERT CLIFFORD CRAUFURD
The war diary of the 18th Field Company indicates he was killed by an enemy raider on that date

So I assume this is the officer mentioned

TD

Casualty Details | CWGC

 

I'd hope, particularly in the light of your long-standing presence here that the majority would read all the information first and make an informed judgment. It's not Facebook here, you know !

 

Having tripped over this little memorial last week and subsequently been made aware of this thread, I'm curious about Corporal Leslie Edwards.

Has anyone researched him? Was he actually there in 1940 and/or 1942?

It does sound like he had a story to tell, but maybe the story gradually transformed from fact to fiction over the following 60 years.

 

Having inadvertently started this thread, and at the risk of re-igniting the issue, I have indeed looked for Mr Edwards and can confirm that there are certainly birth and death records that match and a 1939 Register entry showing he lived just over a mile from the site, so yes, he could have been there. Obviously no military details to be found.

 

Many thanks Tony56.

I'm being a bit dim, but why do you say "Obviously no military details to be found"?

It seems to me that if he was a corporal in (say) the Home Guard, he may have walked this area every day. But as he was just 20 years old in 1940, its more likely that he was in the Army/Air Force and therefore probably serving somewhere other than his home town. If so, his visits to this beauty spot during WW2 may have been few and far between.

It could be that he did warn someone of the dangers, and at some point there was an incident. But maybe 2 or more stories have been conflated into one to make an interesting anecdote.

Now that I am in my 70th year, I think I remember things that happened when in my 20s, but can't be sure about either the year or the absolute accuracy of the detail. So I'm not going to view poor Leslie Edwards in a bad light.

Personally I think the plaque should be replaced with a general tribute to Canadian servicemen. But as an absolute minimum, the existing tribute should be reworded to include "Local legend has it that..."

 

Local legends
Family myth
We do see it a lot here myself included but if a memorial is put up that skews history then it needs to be corrected or removed

From my childhood
Kodak factory nw London WW2
3 sailors machine gunned in the street by a Messerschmitt and killed
No plaque ,made up story?

 

Only because there are very few WW2 records in the public domain, RA enlistments, casualty lists are some of the few. I am staying neutral on the story as I have absolutely nothing to prove it one way or the other.