CTRE

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Jimmyfilth, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    I'm having trouble finding information on the role of Corp Troop Royal Engineers.

    I understand how sappers attached on a divisional level worked, but the information I can find on my grandads unit suggest they were attached at a Corps level.

    I know grandad built bridges and cleared mines, but not sure how the organisation worked. Were they just sent anywhere they were needed in the Corps? I know he bridged the Rapido and even know which bridge his Fld Coy built, but can find no reference to them anywhere, only the fld cots attached at divisional level.
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Jimmy

    Sometimes the three divisional troops were not enough and so the Corps had to back them up - anywhere they were needed -

    mostly we hear all about the fighting troops but never the guys who clean the latrines etc - if he helped bridge the Rapido -

    he did a great job in getting me over without getting my Tank wet…

    Cheers
     
  3. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    Haha. Thanks for the reply.

    I'm having a hard time tracking his unit at all, the most useful leads I've got are from searching his unit on the CWGC site.

    I shall have to wait for his war diaries to get a better idea.
     
  4. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    It seems his unit took a few casualties on 23/6/44 near Bolsena, but the only information I can find relates to a tank battle.

    I also know he cleared mines at El Alamein because my nan remembers him taking her there and him talking about what they did there.
     
  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Jimmy,

    What was the Coy, RE, he was with - number and name would be useful?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  7. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    He was Ernest George FERRIS 2110143. Have his service records and a few photos.
     
  8. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Jimmy

    sounds like he was in X Corps with 5th US Army before they handed over to XIII corps near Orvieto - 78th Div..

    the tank battle MIGHT have been with 9th Armoured bde who were also in the area - a look at the service record

    might clear that up…

    Cheers
     
  9. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    His service records have only added to confusion through a mix of illegible (to me) handwriting and the use of a lot of abbreviations that mean very little to me.

    I've also not got many stories to gleam information from. I believe he was mine clearing for the second battle of El Alamein, they have one buried at Syracuse, and one at Sangro River.

    I know he was at Cassino and he did used to tell one story of not being able to pull back as the Americans were bombing behind them.

    Actually, Tom, he was in out out of hospital a few times with NBC, which I believe is 'non battle casualty', is that correct? My nan was told he got sand in his boots. I always suspected that may have been code for VD, but I have since been told VD was a chargeable indiscretion. I've also though he may have gone a bit bomb happy, but have also been told sand in the boots could play havoc with your feet. Which one of those do you think is most likely? Or, in your experience, any other obvious things spring to mind?
     
  10. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    I'm aware that is a very generic question. Let me expand a little;

    Admitted hospital POR2 7/4/43
    Discharged SOx2 and reverts to L/cpl 20/4/43

    Admitted hospital POX2 (reverts to Spr) 22/6/43
    Discharged SOx2 22/6/43

    Admitted hospital NBC TOSx2 29/8/43
    Discharged RTU 11/10/43

    Admitted TOSx2 NBC 13/10/43
    Discharged SOSx2 4BNIGRTD 16/11/43

    Then gets posted to 2 CRU.

    Admitted hospital (NBC???) 28/1/44
    Discharge RTU 14/2/44

    Admitted 2FD Amb (NBC) T.OSx2 3/12/44
    Discharged to unit SOx2 11/12/44

    Admin 107 (SA) GH (NBC) T.OSx2 17/12/44
    Discharged to unit SOx2 24/12/44

    Posted to 56 field company on 23/09/45

    Admin 19C.C.S (NBC) T.OSx2 2/10/45
    Discharged to unit SOSx2 3/10/44

    Throughout this time he's up and down the ranks and keeps passing proficiency tests for his trade.


    Anyone have any idea what the above means?
     
  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Basically these are regular abbreviations - SOS = Struck off Strength - TOS = taken on strength - RTU = returned to unit -

    CCS = Casualty clearing station ( hospital)- X(ii) X(2) = sick list….Fd Amb = field ambulance- better than first aid section

    GH = General Hospital - I think he was a dodger….

    Cheers
     
  12. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    Ah ok, I wasn't aware of those abbreviations, although I guessed GH was general hospital.

    Yeah, there are certainly a lot of hospital visits there. The only actual injury I know he got during the war was shrapnel to his right thigh, although no idea at what point he got that.
     
  13. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    You could check the records/rates of infection for those hospitals - Field Ambulance accounts may offer information.

    Perhaps posting scanned versions of his Service Records may help?

    As always personnel research can resemble that of a cat playing with a ball of twine...
     
  14. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    I think I would agree that the abbreviation is probably non battle casualty, nothing as sinister as VD.

    My take on it is that he could have had recurring Malaria. I notice on my father's service records that he was admitted a couple of times to a Field Ambulance unit, which I suspect was malaria. In fact I have been listening to a recording of a chap in the same unit and troop as my father, and he was in hospital a few times with it too, and so were quite a few in the same unit.

    Service records are not usually that detailed when it comes to saying what they were in hospital for, unfortunately they always throw up more questions than answers :wink:

    Lesley
     
  15. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Jimmyfilth.

    577 Fd Coy RE were part of XIII (BR) Corps Troops RE along with 56 Fd Coy RE, 578 Fd Coy and 576 Corps Fd Park Coy.

    That would confirm that he was at the Rapido because it was X (BR) Corps's task to cross that river on 11 May 44. He would not have been immediately involved in the initial bridging tasks - that was the role of the Fd Coys RE in the two assaulting Divs - 8 Indian Infantry Div and 4 British Infantry Div. I suspect, but only the War Diaries will confirm, that he was involved in building and maintaining the approach roads to the bridging sites and then, when the two assaulting Divs had pushed on, with keeping the established bridges open.

    Check out Terence Cuneo's fabulous painting of the Crossing of the Rapido on the night of 12 May 44 by three Fd Coys RE from 4 British Infantry Div.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  16. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    Thanks so much for the help lads.

    Frank, I have that painting up on my wall already. A friends Great Uncle died that night with 256 Fld Coy.
     
  17. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    As they made up the Corps Troops, does that mean they would have worn the Corps insignia in place of a div patch?
     
  18. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Jimmy,

    Things have moved on some what since I asked my question earlier...

    I agree with Lesley in that the reasons for his hospitalisation could be explained by malaria, jaundice, sand fly fever and many, many other reoccurring ailments. A lot of promotions were temporary, war time only and not substantive, so someone who was no around through reoccurring hospitalisation may have been reverted to a previous rank. For example, how can you have a section leader who is never there?!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  19. Jimmyfilth

    Jimmyfilth Member

    He was up and down the ranks like a yo-yo. He was a lance Sejeant three times with all the ranks between. He seemed to change between paid and unpaid acting ranks a lot too.

    I know he was knocked down to sapper from l/sjt for having a fight at one point.
     
  20. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Steve.

    256 Fd Coy RE were part of 78 Inf Div so that would be right. The Div was sitting in reserve behind 4 Inf Div waiting for Amazon to go in. There was a lot of confusion at Amazon and most of the Div crossed Congo when that was put in.

    What was the chap's name?

    Regards

    Frank
     

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