Crap songs at the Menin Gate

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by soren1941, Jun 1, 2010.

  1. 52nd Airborne

    52nd Airborne Green Jacket Brat

    I suppose a group of Morris Dancers will be next at the Menin Gate!:rolleyes:
     
  2. Auditman

    Auditman Senior Member

    I was at the Menin Gate for the Remembrance Day evening ceremony last November. There was a massed band of UK Firemen and Canadian Pipers. After the last post the band played Reveille (the Ieper firemen did not seem best pleased) and then, I believe, an Olympic Anthem that was superbly played building into a crescendo. There was spontaneous applause at the end from most present. It did not feel quite right at that location but it was such an inspiring piece after the Last Post and the impeccably observed Silence it was certainly not disrespectful

    Jim
     
  3. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    My wife and I visited Ypres this week for the first time since 2008 (unusual as we normally go several times a year). As always we attended the Last Post each night and spent a lot of time discussing the issue of whether the ceremony is turning into a sort of 'Britain's Got Talent' spectacular where the actual playing of the Last Post threatens to be submerged beneath the welter of choirs, brass bands, pipers etc. Don't get me wrong: Jackie, the other officials and the buglers themselves do a fantastic job in organising it every night but the original purpose of the ceremony sometimes seems in danger of being lost. To back up a point made in an earlier post, a spy with connections in the choral world told me that in recent years the Last Post has become for some (adult) choirs just another date in their European tour calendar. They don't bother with any of that boring war stuff while they're there, in fact some of them just arrive for the ceremony and then go off to their hotel in Bruges or wherever. I don't know how true this is and would hope that for the vast majority it isn't. I agree with Soren that some of the music might be chosen with a little more care.
    Having said all this, my wife and I saw some very moving moments, as usual, during our three visits this week and the crowds, including many British schoolchildren, were immaculately respectful. All human life was definitely there, though, including a car crash just before the ceremony on Tuesday. Luckily, no-one was hurt.
    Incidentally , it was great to meet you at last, Soren!
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I noticed a huge difference in my last two visits to the Menin Gate.
    Last time I was there was October 2006, previous to that it was November 1995.
    Don't get me wrong , it's great that so many people are there to 'Remember' but it did feel more like a 'must see tick on the tourist trail' than an actual act of remembrance.
    Am I being a snob?
     
  5. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    I don't think so Owen. I have been there a few times and agree that the simple act of remembrance is becoming something of a tourist attraction.
    I have great respect for the Fire Brigade personnel who carry out the ceremony every evening (believe it was carried out the very night Ypres was liberated in WW2).
    I don't know who arranges the 'extra' things that are going on now (tourist office?) but I do feel it needs a slightly more - don't know what the word is - respectful? attitude. I can fully understand youth groups, choirs etc wanting to get involved in the ceremony and for the best of reasons but sometimes it can go a little too far and detract from the basic dignity of the event.
    Or are we perhaps just grumpy old men (or mooses)?

    Mike
     
  6. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    NO! It's the Menin Gate, Ffs. Not the bloody Albert Hall!

    I've never been there. I, sadly, never will. But, if I'd ever got there and found it being used as some sort of open air concert hall for all comers? I'd be completely disgusted.

    On another, completely unrelated, forum, someone once asked what music reduced us to tears. I posted that listening to " The Last Post ", at The Menin Gate would lead me to needing physical support.

    Start letting just anyone blurt out their latest, 'Charity Album' Numbers there? I feel I'd need physical restraint!
     
  7. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    The ceremony is co-ordinated by the Last Post Committee. You see their organisers (headed by the indefatigable Jackie Platteuw) there every night in their blazers. Thanks to the internet it is now easy for groups to arrange their participation well in advance, although Jackie has told me that they still get choirs etc turning up on spec on the night expecting to take part. I don't know if they turn anyone away. They obviously want to make it inclusive and a few years ago sent out guidelines for participation. Jackie usually makes an announcement at the start requesting people not to clap. Incidentally, contrary to popular belief this is not a new phenomenon-I first heard it 16 years ago. The problem is that the event is becoming a victim of its own success and fame. It is another tick on the '150 tourist attractions you must visit before you die' list. I'm not sure that it's feasible for Jackie and Co to inspect what every group is going to perform, they have to trust to their good judgement which is not always evident. When do they start limiting numbers of 'active' participants and turn groups away? Even ten years ago you still got 'ordinary' ceremonies with just the Last Post but now, as Soren says, you might get not one but two or even more choirs, bands etc. all engaged in what is fast becoming 'Competitive Commemoration' with ever-more elaborate wreaths etc. On one night we went, an elderly member of one of the choirs toured the crowd explaining who they were and where they came from and showing off their wreath. All well-intentioned, I'm sure, but rather toe-curling nonetheless.
    I don't want to sound like a grumpy old man-heaven knows I've taken part in the Last Post ceremony in uniform on several occasions and recited the exhortation twice. It is important for the ceremony to remain a vital thing and evolution is inevitable as public attitudes to remembrance change. The problem is, as always, where to draw the line.
     
  8. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    We also had someone in WW1 uniform tonite say no more
     
  9. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    I hasten to add that I have been in modern uniform on each occasion I have taken part!
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I noticed a huge difference in my last two visits to the Menin Gate.
    Last time I was there was October 2006, previous to that it was November 1995.
    Don't get me wrong , it's great that so many people are there to 'Remember' but it did feel more like a 'must see tick on the tourist trail' than an actual act of remembrance.
    Am I being a snob?


    What was the difference? I must admit my reasons were a bit of a tick box as well as other reasons like curiosity, meet Soren etc.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What was the difference?

    Mainly , only several dozen people there & the buglers in 1995.
    All staying silent.
    In 2006, several hundred people there with lots of chatter & some horseplay from some teenagers.
     
  12. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    As matter of interest (Soren may know this) how many times these days do the buglers just do a 'standard' ceremony, i.e. simply sound the Last Post? My wife and I saw one about five years ago, but we can't remember when, exactly. At the end some of the crowd muttered 'Is that all there is to it?'
     
  13. 52nd Airborne

    52nd Airborne Green Jacket Brat

    I have been very critical in the passed of the tourist attraction that the Menin Gate ceremony has now become. I've even heard people saying after the ceremony "That was a waste of time and if I'd known I wouldn't of bothered".

    I can recall my first visit to the Menin Gate (Over 10 years ago) when it was freezing cold and a head count of 12 people (Including the buglers) made the ceremony very poignant to those who were there.

    In the past when I've been staying in Ypres I would of attended the ceremony every night but these days and mainly because of the crowds I will only attend once.

    Has anyone been to the Last Post ceremony at the Ploegsteert memorial? If so how well attended is it?
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I first went to the Last Post ceremony in 1989.
    A tad different now.
     
  15. Auditman

    Auditman Senior Member

    I have had the privilege of attending the Gate ceremony 6 times as a tourist, one a block of four in September 2008, Monday to Thursday during a Leger Holiday. The last night was heavily populated with The Guards laying a memorial and a few coach loads of UK schoolchildren that we also saw at Liisenhoek Cemetery that day. I am please to say that there was no larking around, just total respect for the occasion. The Tuesday had a Canadian camera crew and I am guessing there was a relevant event being remembered, correctly by the assembled crow. The camera man however had a very bright light and did not seem to have discovered his zoom lens judging by how close he went to the fire brigade buglers. Monday and Wednesday were sparsely populated and were very fine ceremonies. The Monday had a couple of Legion Standards and The Silence was just so pefect for that place.

    Jim
     
  16. Theobob

    Theobob Senior Member

    I think things are changing slowly for the worst!
    At the Rhine Crossing(Op Varsity) there were no services at the cemetery's on the actual date of remembrance,the services were moved to the weekend i think to suit the coach tours.
    I remember thinking that one day they will be selling balloons and candyfloss.
    Its a question of balance,but surely we can do better.
     
  17. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I do think that we need to bear in mind that the Menin gate is a public highway and as such is open to everyone.

    It's really quite remarkable that a conflict which began nearly 100 years ago is still being remembered in such a way.

    Our great grandparents had other things on their minds of course but I can't imagine that they would have considered daily services at the Lion Mount to remember those who died fighting against another attempt at European domination in 1815.
     
  18. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    The "Last Post" is an important commemorative event for Belgium and Ypres and is their way of ensuring that THEIR "Thanks" for the sacrifice made by hundreds of thousands of Belgian, French, British and Commonwealth servicemen and women are not forgotten.

    It has become a tourist attraction, partly because it is so rare these days for anyone, let alone a Nation, to remember the deeds that helped them survive.

    The Last Post ceremony can reduce me to tears just from watching YouTube.
    I honour the Belgians, Ypres Council and the Fire Service for what they do. I don't think it perfect to have all these "talent" (?) shows, but the thing is that they are there, to commemorate in their own way. It may not be mine, but if I was there and tramping across a battlefield, would a veteran say what I was doing was "right"?

    As long as the Committee can keep control, then I am happy to leave things to their discretion. Perhaps someone wil tell them of our disquiet that things may be getting "too modern" but as long as there is an interest, then whatever is necessary to fan that small spark in a young mind is acceptable.

    I would love to log on here in 10 or 20 years time to find someone say "I was at the Menin Gate as a 10 year old and that ceremony stayed in my mind. My teachers and parents encouraged me to look into our family history and I have become hooked".

    That''s what the essence of the Last Post ceremony really is: The passing of the Torch of Remembrance from one generation to the next. How it happens is not as important as that it does happen.
     
    Steve G likes this.

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