'Correlli' Soldier Charged in Massacre

Discussion in 'General' started by SSGMike.Ivy, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. SSGMike.Ivy

    SSGMike.Ivy Senior Member

    December 01, 2008
    The Independent


    Italy is seeking the extradition of the German officer responsible for the massacre that formed the central tragedy of Louis de Bernires's novel, Captain Correlli's Mandolin.

    The novel portrays the German soldier, Gunter Weber, who takes part in the massacre, sympathetically. But Italy has decided his true-life model, Otmar Muhlhauser, 88, should answer in an Italian court for his actions.
    More than 5,000 Italian soldiers are believed to have been shot dead on the Greek island of Cephalonia in 1943, weeks after Mussolini's resignation prompted Italy to switch to the Allied side in the Second World War.

    The Italian Acqui Division, commanded by General Antonio Gandin, landed on the island just as their nation changed sides. General Gandin gave his soldiers the choice of joining the Germans, surrendering or fighting. They decided to fight. However a week later, they surrendered; the Germans responded by shooting thousands of them dead.

    Muhlhauser is accused of plotting General Gandin's murder.

    He lives near Munich and is said to be in good health. In 2004, he said: "The Italian division was only spoken of by [German] officers as traitors ... To betrayal there was only one reply: execution."
     
  2. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    The politics of war, decades later we see such charges being brought up. What was his rank?
     
  3. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    He lives near Munich and is said to be in good health.


    Yet he'll turn up in court, a wheelchair bound, mumbling old decrepit with advanced Altzheimers and a failing heart :rolleyes:
     
  4. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

  5. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    So he is getting charged for killing soldiers who switched sides and "betrayed" their cause. The Allies had done similar things during the war, should we track all of them down?
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    CEFALONIA MASSACRE ( September, 1943)
    Almost unknown outside of Italy, this event ranks with Katyn as one of the darkest episodes of the war. On the Greek island of Cefalonia, in the Gulf of Corinth, the Italian ‘ACQUI DIVISION' was stationed. Consisting of 11,500 enlisted men and 525 officers it was commanded by 52 year old General Antonio Gandin, a veteran of the Russian Front where he won the German Iron Cross. When the Badoglio government announced on September 8, 1943, that Italian troops should cease hostilities against the Allies, there was much wine and merriment on Cefalonia. However, their German counterparts on the island maintained a stony silence and soon began harassing their Italian comrades, calling them 'traitors'. The German 11th Battalion of Jäger-Regiment 98 of the 1st Gebirgs (Mountain) Division, commanded by Major Harald von Hirschfeld, arrived on the island and soon Stukas were bombing the Italian positions. The fighting soon developed into a wholesale massacre when the Gebirgsjäger troops began shooting their Italian prisoners in groups of four to ten beginning with General Gandin. By the time the shooting ended four hours later, 4,750 Italian soldiers lay dead all over the island. But that was not the end for the Acqui Division, some 4000 survivors were shipped to the mainland for further transportation to Germany for forced labour. In the Ionian Sea a few of the ships hit mines and sank, taking around 3,000 men to their deaths.
    The final death toll in this tragic episode was 9,646 men and 390 officers. Major Harald Hirschfeld was later killed by a bomb splinter during the fighting at Duklapass in Warsaw in 1945 after he was promoted to Lieutenant General. General Hubert Lanz, commander of the Gebirgsjäger troops, was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials. He was released in 1951. In the 1950s, the remains of over 3,000 soldiers, including 189 officers, were unearthed and transported back to Italy for proper burial in the Italian War Cemetery at Bari. Unfortunately, the body of General Gandin was never identified. In 2002, the investigation into this massacre was reopened in Germany and ten ex-members of the 1st Gebirgs Division, of the 300 still alive, have been investigated and may be charged. The youngest is 81 and the oldest is now 93. There is no Statute of Limitations for murder

    Source: Massacres and Atrocities of WWII in Western Europe
     
  7. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Lawyers will fight it on the grounds that he will not get a fair trial , movie and book will have influenced the public.
     
  8. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    I think it goes without saying that at his age he probably won't get the death penalty, would sending him to jail this late in the game really be worth it?
     
  9. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I think it goes without saying that at his age he probably won't get the death penalty, would sending him to jail this late in the game really be worth it?
    I suppose it depends on your viewpoint as to whether it would serve any purpose. Any relatives of the victims would argue that he should be punished for what happened.
     
  10. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    To quote 2 Pac:

    Only God Can Judge Me Now!

    I'm not agreeing with what happened, I personally just don't see the purpose this late in the game, I doubt the book/movie brought all this to light all of a sudden.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Eleven6

    There is no death penalty in the European Union. All the countries in the EEC signed up to the human rights act, article 2.

    Cheers
     
  12. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    To quote 2 Pac:



    Who, or what, is " 2 Pac "? And what has " 2 Pac " or it's opinions on judgement got to do with anything?

    In these times of " DNA ", I read of some bloke caught up for a motoring offence, or something. Turns out they had him for a serious, paedophilia based crime a decade or two before.

    Would ye then turn round and say things like, 'What's the point?'. 'It was years ago.'? '2 Pac wouldn't agree with all this.'? If he'd got hold of Your kiddie?

    Go down that road and what do we? Close the files as soon as the sentence would have expired, had they been caught in the act? Murder someone. Evade detection for nine years. You're off the hook? Is that it?

    Sorry. Those ten thousand guys won't Ever be coming back. And his sort should Always dread The Knock.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  13. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    Who, or what, is " 2 Pac "? And what has " 2 Pac " or it's opinions on judgement got to do with anything?

    In these times of " DNA ", I read of some bloke caught up for a motoring offence, or something. Turns out they had him for a serious, paedophilia based crime a decade or two before.

    Would ye then turn round and say things like, 'What's the point?'. 'It was years ago.'? '2 Pac wouldn't agree with all this.'? If he'd got hold of Your kiddie?

    Go down that road and what do we? Close the files as soon as the sentence would have expired, had they been caught in the act? Murder someone. Evade detection for nine years. You're off the hook? Is that it?

    Sorry. Those ten thousand guys won't Ever be coming back. And his sort should Always dread The Knock.

    You take things too seriously, this is different. The trial won't be an overnight thing, it could take months or even years to complete. At his age and supposed condition described above there is the possiblity he may not survive to see the verdict. He is not even in Italy at the moment, who knows where he is. The extradidation proccess is not simple, that alone could take months for both parties to agree upon. Once he makes it to Italy, it would take even more time to get the ball rolling. And of course, those familar with court know how long everything else takes.

    Suppose he does survive to see the verdict which will probably be life in prison, how long would someone in his condition last? Something done in a time of war is much different then something done in society. How many countless millions must have killed for fun (as in not when in battle) on both sides? Not to mention rape, stealing, etc

    Like I said before, I highly doubt these crimes came to light recently, they probably knew about it for decades yet decided to investigate in 2002. I don't see the point in punishing someone who is that old, had it been directly after the war he would have either been killed or forced to spend time in prison, having to think about what he did every day of his sentance. Not so much in his late 80s in a crippling condition, wouldn't you think?

    In the end the most they can hope to get is a tarnish on his record, but if he was indeed involved with these murders, I think that's already been taken care of.
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Elven -
    I do think that you are missing the point here - the last report in 2004 was that he was in good health and condition - someone SUGGESTED - that by the time he appears in court then the lawyers would have him dressed up as a cripple with Altzheimers and everthing else in order to sway both judge and jury - which you must agree - does go on.

    I am reminded of O.J. Simpson after he was aquitted of the murder of his wife and her boy friend - he apparently called the Judge asking if he could have his gloves back ( that's a joke)
    Cheers
     
  15. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    OFFTOPIC: Oh, man, they don't know 2Pac, what a shame :D
     
  16. CCDK

    CCDK Junior Member

    what really beeeps me off is that a lot of people who did some bad deeds lived here and there and locals, politicians etc knew about it - those people could have been brought up on charges in say the 50's 60's 70's 80's or 90's but now since there isnt the communist terror to fight against politics between the nato members isnt threatened by having to hand over former danish citizens living in germany to trial in denmark, germans to trail in greece, yugoslavia, russia or italy etc etc etc - besides has anybody been put on trail for the things done to the japanese population in america? We cant round up all germans and italians in the US - that would be half of the populaion in newyork and new jersey but hey the japanese are easy to spot and give folks a sense of security by putting thrm into camps - the guys who came up with that one should have been punished but noooo - not while we have the commies to fight that would be bad and who cares anyway.....scheesch now im all up and runing and tense - anybody know a good joke to make me calm down?
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Going off topic but that quote of Gott's in post #6 is a tad wrong.
    Dukla Pass is on Polish-Slovakian border not in Warsaw.
    If they can't get that right what else is wrong in that article?


    Major Harald Hirschfeld was later killed by a bomb splinter during the fighting at Duklapass in Warsaw in 1945
     
  18. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

  19. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    Elven -
    I do think that you are missing the point here - the last report in 2004 was that he was in good health and condition - someone SUGGESTED - that by the time he appears in court then the lawyers would have him dressed up as a cripple with Altzheimers and everthing else in order to sway both judge and jury - which you must agree - does go on.

    I am reminded of O.J. Simpson after he was aquitted of the murder of his wife and her boy friend - he apparently called the Judge asking if he could have his gloves back ( that's a joke)
    Cheers

    I guess so, when ever someone is extradited their is usually protest, this could end up extending the process. No doubt his lawyers will defend him to the best of their ability, I wouldn't doubt his age being used as a motive either.

    @ deadb_tch: Could be because he had like 50 different ways to spell his name so not everyone recognizes all of them. :lol:
     
  20. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    You take things too seriously .....


    Then we obviously just have different perspectives on life, the universe, etc.

    Sorry, but; Ten Thousand unarmed and defenceless men? Sons, Husbands and Fathers? Lined up and gunned down? Slaughtered in cold blood?

    Elven6; If you don't feel that Is a 'Serious' matter, then I suppose we'll simply have to agree to differ on the issue.

    I do hope I never come to read your 'light hearted' take on the Porajmos / Holocaust. I mean; That too was a 'long time ago'.
     

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