confused and needing clarification!

From a family tree
Arthur Kinson
1921–1941
Birth
20 Jan 1921
Death
1941
Motorbike Accident

TD


Name: Maurice A Kinson
Registration Date: Jan 1921
[Feb 1921]
[Mar 1921]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Burton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Mother's Maiden Name: Tilley
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 690

This last one is a bit of a guess - I thought it might be fun to throw in a curve ball for Maurice Arthur ............

 

Nice try but no cigar. As we have already established family trees do not carry the same level of proof as a birth certificate. With your first answer, the DoB would appear to be correct but, where is the Birth Cert?

The lower details have a completely different maiden name for the mother and could, with a stretch of the imagination, be an attempt to register the birth, but why use the name of a different mother?

 

Well, the family tree has let me down again as I cannot find a death certificate for Arthur Kinson in 1941 or 1942 or 1943 or 1944 or, well you get the picture. But as he hasn't got a birth certificate, why am I expecting a death certificate?

 

Happy about that especially as I gave up smoking nearly 4 years ago now

TD

anyway it’s good training for me to learn how to use these silly touch sensitive keyboards and to copy & paste from other sites

 

Copy & paste from other sites?. I had you down as a serious researcher. What we need is verifiable evidence. Here's the thing, you won't find a birth certificate for Arthur Kinson, born 21st January 1921.

Now, please try and find a birth certificate for this fellow and I promise that this is the last one that I will ask you to find: Frederick Arthur Rutley but possibly also listed as Frederick Arthur Rutley King, born 1920-1921 but no later than 25th July 1921 as I have proof that he was alive then.

 

Aha you see you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time

Looks like I have been found out

TD

 

Soooooooooooooooo

You are alluding that the OP has been up the wrong street since their research began and is wasting their time?

And has not really taken advice from the forum experts

 

So far, I don't think that you are fooling anyone.

 

I am suggesting nothing except that research has to be based on verifiable facts. What I am attempting to do with this current exercise is to show that people who we can show existed through documentary evidence, in this case the 1939 Register, can and did exist with out official documentation such as birth certificates.

Sometimes logic can trump expertise.

 

and sometimes Donald can trump expertise

I fully understand what you are doing, just hope others do

TD

 

Stringer-Dominic-Michael - Roll of Honour

www.roll-of-honour.org.uk › html › stringer-dominic-michael
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Dominic Michael Stringer was born in Eire (maybe), 0n 14th. April in either 1919 or 1922 but cannot prove this. He may or may not have had brothers and sisters ...

 

Well done Guy

Answers on a postcard please

 

Blimey Guy - that must hold the record for the longest ever post, I nearly wore my finger out skimming down it on my new (and first ever) iPhone


TD

 

It could similar to my fathers case where his real mother died 10 days after his birth.
So his Bcert shows a different maiden name to that of the lady who could be his step mother in the 39 register and I don’t know how possible it might be for his father to forget to register his birth if the trauma of losing his wife in childbirth created some mental health problems. Perhaps Maurice Arthur was brought up by relatives - stranger things have happened

TD

 

An interesting observation but Maurice Arthur Kinson is not the person who we are talking about. The Arthur Kinson that I refer to was certainly conceived, if not born in Cullompton, in Devon in 1920/21. He was formally, but not officially given the name Frederick Arthur Rutley and or, Frederick Arthur Rutley King. His mother's surname was Rutley and presumably the father had the surname King. I also have documentary evidence that Frederick Arthur King and Arthur Kinson are one and the same person but you will not find an birth certificate for either of them.. So far, I have not been able to find a death certificate for Arthur Kinson and have found no evidence that he died in 1941.

The circumstances of how this came about are not unusual and probably happened up and down the country at the time and probably still happen today. There is no need to invent a back story about having to change identity due to a criminal past, no need to tell tales of daring do based on hearsay and family legend backed up by years of chasing chimeras on various forums.

There is a perfectly logical reason why Frederick Arthur Rutley never officially existed and yet managed to metamorphose into Arthur Kinson. I would suggest that Dominic Stringer's circumstances were probably very similar and for the same reason left no birth certificate behind him.

What is exceptional about Frederick Arthur Rutley King - Arthur Kinson is that documentary evidence has survived that shows how it came about. I very much doubt that the original poster will find any similar evidence that shows how Dominic Stringer's birth was not recorded with the registrar.

Once someone has confirmed that there is no birth certificate for either Frederick Arthur Rutley or Arthur Swinson I will produce my evidence.

 

Just reading through some of the links in Guy's post above and I came across this:

Trial in Rome of merchant seaman Dominick Michael Stringer Irish citizen
Reference:
DFA/5/306/14
Date:
1945
Creator:
Department of Foreign Affairs
Scope and Content:
Extent:
1 file
Language:
English
Level of Description:
FILE

As I think these ongoing threads are driving us all a bit nuts, I think that we should have a whip round and get a copy of the file. It may help to put us out of our misery.

 

Count me in im a sucker for paying for someone else's research

 

Getting back to Arthur Kinson and the 1939 Register, there are four people with the name Kinson living at the address.

1) Ernest Kinson. Date of birth: 18th May 1890. Birth Registered as Albert Ernest Kinson at Newport, Monmouthshire in the June Qtr of 1890.

2) Annie Kinson. Date of birth: 3rd July 1890. Birth Registered as Annie E Bridges. September Qtr 1890 at Aston, Warwickshire. The entry of her death in the register for the December Qtr of 1977, confirms the DoB and shows her second name to be Ellen.

Their marriage was registered in the December Qtr of 1915 in Meriden, which covers the town of Minworth.

3) Horace Kinson. Date of birth: 2nd February 1917. Registered as Herbert Horace Kinson, March Qtr 1917, Meriden. Mother's maiden name stated as Bridges.

4) Arthur Kinson. Date of Birth: 20th January 1921. No birth certificate issued.

A quick search of the Birth records on FreeBMD using Kinson as the surname and Bridges as the mother's maiden name brings up only Herbert Horace Kinson.

Herbert Horace Kinson's death was registered in Epsom Surrey in 2007. I bought some military photographs, paperwork and other ephemera from the man who cleared his house. Amongst this paperwork were three handwritten letters, one written by Annie Kinson to a Miss Rutley. The second letter is from 3 Pen-Y-Dre, Cullompton, and is signed by a Miss F.E. Rutley. The third is from the same address and is dated 25th July 1921. It is not so much a letter as an agreement involving the two ladies and bears Annie Kinson's signature. Clearly there were two copies of this agreement, one being held by each party.

F. E. Rutley is very likely to be Florence Ethel Rutley whose birth was registered in Tiverton, Devon, in 1896. The area covered by the Tiverton Registrar includes Cullompton. In 1921, Florence Ethel Rutley would have been 24 years old. A search of the marriage registers suggests that she married a man named Leonard Cook in 1922. The marriage was registered at the Tiverton Registrar's office. Further searches suggest that the marriage produced no children, or that if there were children, their births were not registered. Sadly, Florence Ethel (Rutley) Cook appears to have died in 1935 at the age of 38, the death being registered at Tiverton. Her Husband Leonard seems to have lived to the ripe old age of 81, his death was registered in Exeter in 1970.

So far, all well and good and all verifiable. But who was Arthur Kinson and why wasn't his birth registered?