Dismiss Notice

You must be 18 or over to participate here.
Dismiss this notice to declare that you are 18+.

Anyone below 18 years of age choosing to dishonestly dismiss this message is accepting the consequences of their own actions.
WW2Talk.Com will not approve of, or be held responsible, for your choices.

Churchill's Varsity Battlefield Tour

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by ometei, Jul 20, 2024.

  1. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

    Yo,

    A couple of other stills of the aircraft with port wing on fire from ometei's enhanced footage. It appears to be going down.

    Varsity-ometei-1.png Varsity-ometei-2.png

    Somewhat rotund so possibly a C46 ... ?

    Regards ...
     
  2. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Good evening.

    Uwe was probably too quick again. The house marked with the number 2 is of course not the old post office. It's the Villa Wardemann. As my mum lives nearby and I go there every day for care, I've been thinking ever since I posted this: Uwe, you've made a huge mistake. The old post office is pretty much opposite the hospital.

    Regards Villa Wardemann Ulrichstrasse.jpg
     
    stolpi likes this.
  3. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Hello Alberk. I think I made a request for ‘Reserved Colfax Nan’ years ago. Since Ike was supposedly also on the church tower in Alpen, could there somehow be a connection? Were the buildings all confiscated and marked in advance for the ‘High Visitor’?
    Since you know them here, I took the picture at the first big villa on the right when you come down the hill. Not the bypass, the old Alpen road into it. I hope it's still there on the wall. I can't find the original photo. The pictures again: the supposed jeep of Ike in front of the Hotel Terheggen, and a picture of the church tower with a C46.

    Greetings Reseved Colfax Nan.JPG Alpenb.JPG Alpend.JPG
     
    ometei and alberk like this.
  4. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Uwe,
    as I learned from ometei's post the term "Colfax" was the code name for US XVI Corps. So, based on that information I do not believe that there is a direct connection to Eisenhower but only to the Corps he visited.

    Where is the COLFAX NAN sign? I am nor familiar with Alpen and the buildings you mention, Hotel Terheggen I do not know either. I also do not not know what NAN stands for.

    The other picture shows a B-24 Liberator - so the photo was taken on March 24th at around 13 h.

    Best regards
    alberk
     
  5. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Hallo Alberk.

    Ich habe ein Luftbild von mir aus dem Jahr 1970 auf den Scanner gelegt. Es entspricht in etwa dem Bild vom Dach der Jugendherberge. Das Hotel Terheggen ist inzwischen abgerissen, wie die meisten historischen Gebäude im Viertel. Politik. Auch die Jugendherberge ist schon weg.

    Dann ist das Rätsel fast gelöst, bis auf „NAN“


    Die Bilder habe ich vor etwa 15 Jahren als Scan bekommen, in der Beschreibung stand: eine C 46 über den Alpen. Seitdem schwirrt mir das Bild im Kopf herum. Entschuldigung. Natürlich handelt es sich um eine 4-motorige Maschine.

    Auf meine Anfrage nach Abzügen der Originalbilder habe ich leider nie eine Antwort erhalten.


    Später fragte ich im Eisenhower-Archiv nach, ob sie noch weitere Bilder hätten. Die Antwort war: Tolle Bilder, die kennen wir auch nicht, wir melden uns. Das war’s dann auch schon, natürlich keine Antwort. Wie so oft.


    Mit freundlichen Grüße


    ca 1970 Bild 1 oben.jpg
     
    ometei likes this.
  6. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    The plane was on its return flight, the B-24s were supposed to take the same return route as the other US planes.

    See map: Churchill's Varsity Battlefield Tour
     
    Uwe Sewing likes this.
  7. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    Side note: Churchill's Security on the 24th

    Certainly several safety measures were taken for the PM's tour on March 24. The most obvious was the use of DACs for the midday tour. But what about in the morning? Not without reason, Eisenhower had chosen a more distant vantage point, and would have found shelter in the building if needed. Churchill, on the other hand, was less than 2 km from the Rhine and could have been fired on from the east at any time.

    C-46_Xanten.jpg

    B-17_Xanten.jpg

    A further security risk, which was probably not taken into account in this form in advance, were the plane crashes. After all, more than 50 C-46s, C-47s and B-24s were hit by fire and exploded or had to make an emergency landing, a large number of them on the west side of the Rhine. Striking examples from the Xanten area are a C-46, a B-17 observation aircraft and, a little further away, a B-24 that crashed into an ammunition depot.

    Are there actually any figures on the fighter planes (Typhoon, Spitfire, P47, P51 ...) that crashed during Varsity?

    Later ...
     
  8. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

    Xanten Crash Site

    I'm surprised Churchill didn't insist on visiting the crash site. They drove right past it. ... :lol:

    Crash Still-Crop.png

    Regards ...
     
  9. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Hello.

    Als ich das las, fiel mir spontan ein, dass wir diesen Ort auch schon einmal besucht hatten.

    Vielleicht ist das für manche interessant und unbekannt. Ansonsten einfach löschen.

    Bosch – Der Zweite Weltkrieg zwischen Rhein und Maas, Seite 307, Jahrgang 1970.


    Zitat: .... Einer davon stürzte in ein amerikanisches Munitionsdepot zwischen Sevelen und Issum am -----. Bauer ------- war in der Nähe, als er abstürzte.

    Ich arbeitete gerade auf meinem Feld, als ein Flugzeug im Tiefflug zurückkehrte. Flammen schlugen aus der Maschine. Das Flugzeug streifte den Birnbaum im Garten und verlor einen Flügel, der auf die benachbarte Wiese stürzte. Die Maschine geriet ins Trudeln, übersprang die Straßenbäume, stürzte ab und fiel auf die Munitionshaufen. Die im Depot arbeitenden Schwarzen eilten herbei und versuchten verzweifelt, die Kugeln, die um das brennende Wrack herumlagen, wegzuschaffen. Ich rannte mit meiner Tochter und den Pferden so schnell ich konnte zurück zum Hof (Farm). Wir hatten die Gebäude noch nicht erreicht, als es eine gewaltige Explosion gab. Ein riesiger Atompilz stieg in den Himmel. Die Druckwelle richtete auf dem Hof schwere Schäden an. Eine Außenwand der Scheune stürzte ein und begrub mehrere Kinder einer Familie aus Winnekedonk unter sich. Die Katastrophe forderte zwei Todesopfer und zehn Verletzte unter der Zivilbevölkerung. Die benachbarten Bauernhöfe mussten evakuiert werden, da weitere Explosionen erwartet wurden.

    Wie viele Amerikaner dabei ums Leben kamen, ist unbekannt. Am Explosionsort war der Boden auf einer Länge von 85 Metern und einer Breite von etwa 15 Metern aufgerissen. Kein Erdwall umgab den riesigen Trichter. Die Erde um ihn herum wurde pulverisiert und in die Luft geschleudert.

    Zitat Ende.


    Geetings
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2025
  10. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

    Soldier Magazine

    Somewhat related a small article on the building of Digger Bridge.

    April 14 1945 Vol 1 No3-1.jpg April 14 1945 Vol 1 No3-2.jpg

    Regards ...
     
  11. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    Eisenhower and Churchill watch the sky trains

    No - not really. But it's a good example of how some movie editors put together their own story. This was later used in several books and by the press. The scene was taken from the Universal newsreel Volume 18, Release 387.

    The original release sheet reads: [...] When the entire Rhine front explodes into action the First Allied Airborne Army takes flight for the Westphalian plains. From an observation post Gen. Eisenhower and Prime Minister Churchill watch the sky trains roar by overhead. The drop area reached, thousands of chutes float to the ground from twin side-door C-46 carriers, while giant C-47 tow planes release their gliders [...]


    Jump to 1:15 where the scene starts

    The scene is described by the speaker as follows: "Winston Churchill and General Eisenhower observed progress from the ground near the rhine and then the Prime Minister takes a vantage point with Sir Alan Brooke as plane after plane near the objective."

    What we see, however, are the well-known excerpts - only rearranged.

    These newsreels were edited and published by Universal Pictures. They usually contained several stories, were about 10 minutes long and were shown twice a week in American cinemas.

    Later ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2025
  12. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

    Gun Battery

    Field Marshal Brooke in his diary account claims their observation site was close by gun battery positions as is evident by the many nearby soldiers seen in the OP photos and footage.


    IWM information:

    Film: IWM (A70 277-2)

    “ ... III. Churchill, with Field Marshal Brooke and Commander Thompson, watches the Rhine from an observation post (near Xanten) and talks to men of 9th Medium Battery, Royal Artillery. ...”

    There was a battery of guns shown on the same Soldier magazine page containing the photo of Churchill being served tea at his Varsity observation post.

    March 31 1945 Vol 1 No 2.jpg Soldier-March 31, 45 - Vol. I, No 2.jpg

    Army photographer Sgt. Laing shot the photo and others at the same site. The guns, as it turns out, belong to the 9th Medium Regt., RA. The date, however, seems a little early. Tall structures stand near the distant edge of the field, possibly electrical poles.

    B15767.jpg Plunder March 1945 British Artillery - EJG408.jpg

    Laing also took photos in the opposite direction.

    B15772.jpg 5.5 Inch Mk 3-2.jpg

    Best guess on the battery's location is that they are in one of the fields on the plateau above Rheinberger Str. on the "Xanten Rise".

    Regards ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2025
  13. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    March 25th Afternoon Tour - Intro

    At the morning meeting, Eisenhower had mentioned that there was an excellent observation point directly on the Rhine from which to watch the troops crossing over. So shortly after lunch, the group set off in the direction of Büderich (1) Monty was on the road in his Rolls (2). Several vehicles had already been used on the outward journey to Kamp-Lintfort.
    Monty used his Rolls and Churchill a staff car. Brooke was also in a staff car, which could already be seen in a scene on the 24th (license plate M187974).

    Lintfort leave.jpg

    The following map shows an overview of all stations and locations visited during the afternoon. The distance from Kamp-Lintfort to Büderich is 20 km, from there to Wesel bridge it is another 2.5 km. A detailed description of the individual locations will follow later.

    Wesel_out.jpg

    The sketch (3) shows the safety measures that were taken to ensure the safe crossing of the troops and the construction of the bridges. All conceivable disruptive measures were considered. In addition to divers, mines and remote-controlled boats, possible attacks with mini-submarines were also considered (4). These had been used in January/February from Emmerich in an attempt to destroy the Nijmegen bridges. One such Biber submarine can be viewed in the Emmerich Rheinmuseum.

    sketch & biber.jpg

    Later ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2025
    Cee likes this.
  14. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

    Railway Bridge

    Nothing much new. A couple more pics of Churchill on the Wesel Rail Bridge.

    BU 2257.jpg BU 2258.jpg

    Regards ...
     
  15. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Hello Cee.
    I don't mean to be unkind. Just for my understanding. Have you ever actually been here, or are you doing your research from a distance? So you don't know the “country and its people” like me, for example, who grew up here, do you?

    What are the two highlighted posts supposed to be? Two pine trees without crowns, what else? Presumably shaved by artillery. My uncle once had a sawmill here, In der Leucht( Leucht Woods) I could tell you a lot about shell splinters in the wood, I still have some, for whatever reason.

    Difficult. I was going to back it all up with sources, or put everything in the conjunctive.
    No offense intended.

    Regards
     
  16. Cee

    Cee GO TO IT Patron

  17. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    The Büderich Rhine Crossing

    From Kamp-Lintfort, the group around Churchill presumably first traveled north to Reichsstrasse 58, which led to Büderich. In Büderich they turned right towards the banks of the Rhine (1) (2).

    01 02 Büderich.jpg


    After an artillery barrage, the Americans began their attack in the Büderich area at 2 a.m. on March 24 to form bridgeheads on the east bank of the Rhine.

    03 04 büderich 24th.jpg

    Several bridges were built south of Büderich in a short time. The very first bridge over the Rhine was completed on March 24 at Wallach (Class 40 Steel treadway).

    Ninth Army Bridges (Book 'The Rhine Crossing').jpg
    Ninth Army Bridges (Book 'The Rhine Crossing')


    The hotel/restaurant "Wacht am Rhein" (5) is still located directly on the Rhine today (without the famous balcony). Here the VIP's went to the upper floor to follow the troop movements from the balcony (6).

    05 06 wacht balkon.jpg


    Some of the iconic pictures that went around the world were taken here or during the crossing of the Rhine (7) (8).

    07 08 churchill posing 1.jpg


    The following passage is from the book Monty - The Field Marshal. "Even Churchill was surprised by Monty’s wild good humour tantamount to recklessness, now it was clear that Operation Plunder was successful. Expecting to be rebuffed, Churchill suggested going across the Rhine after Eisenhower’s and Bradley’s departure. 'Why not?' Monty replied. To General 'Bill' Simpson’s consternation the three most important British figures of the war — Brooke, Churchill and Montgomery — squeezed into a tank landing craft, crossed the Rhine, and walked for about half an hour on the east bank." (9) (10)

    09 10 east side.jpg


    Montgomery then suggested crossing the Rhine in the direction of Wesel. However, this was not possible due to the existing mine barriers. So they returned to the west bank (11) and then drove the vehicles towards the destroyed Wesel Rhine bridge.

    11 12 westbank & life.jpg

    LIFE Magazine also reported in detail on the Prime Minister's trip in its April 2 issue (12). "In a US Navy Landing boat Prime Minister Chruchill rode nonchalantly across the Rhine on March 25. [...] Said one officer, 'He seemed more pertubed about lighting his cigar in the wind than about shellfire'"

    Images 07-11 © Imperial War Museums


    While at Büderich a Recce platoon (1/30CRT M) belonging to 30th Infantry Division was responsible for the VIP's security.

    30th Recce Büderich.jpg

    Later ...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2025
    Cee likes this.
  18. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    Rheinbaben Bridge

    It was only a few minutes from Büderich to Rheinbaben bridge, the path led through the former Fort Blücher, which was built under Napoleon. The bridge was inaugurated in 1917. On February 14, 1945, it was severely damaged in Allied attacks and finally blown up by German pioneers on March 3 during the retreat. (1) (2)

    Rheinbaben.jpg


    While the group was still getting an impression of the scene, Churchill took advantage of an unobserved moment and literally set off on a sprint towards the bridge. (3) (4)

    enter.jpg

    Here he posed once again for the international press. Thompson, Montgomery and Simpson followed him. (5) (6)

    bridge.jpg

    Then suddenly several shells hit nearby and Simpson turned to the PM: "Prime Minister, there are snipers in front of you, they are shelling both sides of the bridge, and now they have started shelling the road behind you. I cannot accept the responsibility of your being here, and must ask you to come away."

    The CIGS Alan Brooke wrote in his diary: "The look on Winston’s face was just like that of a small boy being called away from his sandcastles on the beach by his nurse! He put both his arms round one of the twisted girders of the bridge, and looked over his shoulder at Simpson with pouting mouth and angry eyes! Thank heaven he came away quietly, it was a sad wrench for him, he was enjoying himself immensely!"

    After Simpson's request, they left the bridge area quite quickly. The well-known staff car flying the Union Jack can also be seen again. (7) (8) This concluded the official visit program for Sunday, March 25, 1945, and the group around Churchill began their journey home to Straelen.

    leave.jpg


    Side Note:
    As the Wesel railroad bridge had also been destroyed by the Germans on March 10, American engineers built a replacement bridge directly next to the destroyed Rheinbabenbrücke, which could be used from April 8.

    holy moly.jpg

    This press photo shows a Transportation Corps train crossing the bridge. Countless soldiers pose at various points on the bridge, one of whom has found a very special spot. (9) (10)


    Wesel later.jpg

    This panoramic view taken at a later date shows the Wesel Rhine bridges. From top to bottom: A destroyed railroad bridge, B new railroad bridge, C destroyed Rheinbaben bridge, D newly erected semi-permanent bridge.

    Later ...
     
    Uwe Sewing, alberk and Cee like this.
  19. ometei

    ometei Well-Known Member

    EA 56602_1.jpg

    Churchill walks across a Bailey bridge over the Rhine on 26 March 1945. © IWM


    It seems to be the week of mysterious bridges. First a bridge in Emmerich (which didn't exist), then a possible bridge over the Niers (still unexplained). When checking dates for the last day of Churchill's visit, a third one. IWM assigns it to the date 26.3.1945. What was irritating, however, was that General Simpson can also be seen. Ultimately, it is a photo of Churchill's visit to the Roer region at the beginning of March. Phew ...

    Later ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2025
    Cee likes this.
  20. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 2, 2025
    stolpi likes this.

Share This Page