Chemical warfare

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by 26delta, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. 26delta

    26delta Senior Member

    Over the decades, the acronyms applied to WMD (weapons of mass destruction) have changed. Those of us in the Chemical Corps have heard ABC (atomic, biological & chemical), NBC (nuclear, ...), etc. referenced in relation to the threats we were to deal with in combat. During the Vietnam era, it was CBR (chemical, biological & radiological). In addition to my training as a lab technician, I also receive training as a CBR instructor.

    If you take a look at that photo I posted of my AIT training class, you will notice a young lady in the front row. During the final week of our training, she and the other enlisted women of the base became victims of a chemical weapon. It should be noted that chemical weapons were stored at Fort McClellan for training use and as a reserve arsenal should the need arise. On this particular Sunday morning, I awoke to a strange smell in the air and suddenly realised that a hazardous chemical was present. Before I could react, someone else in the barracks pressed the chemical alarm. Immediately, the entire barracks was immobilised, with most of us struggling to get dressed while wearing a gas mask.

    We quickly discovered that one of the storage tanks containing phosgene gas had developed a leak and poured its poison down into the valley that was Fort McClellan. The heaviest concentration was centred around the women's enlisted barracks. All of our training now had a real meaning and we went to the aid of those young ladies. The fact that these ladies were in various states of dress (or undress as the case may be) didn't matter. We had a real chemical disaster to deal with. All of the women were treated and only one had to be hospitalised.

    It took seven hours to transfer the remaining gas into another tank and 22 hours for the gas to dissipate to a safe level. All in all, it was a good day.
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    It's currently CBRN in the UK. It changes as the threat to the UK changes -hence the N being put to the back after the cold war ended and the introduction of R. Personally I think R should be second from what I learned.
     
  3. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    Whatever it's called it's a crappy way to fight a war.
     
  4. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    Whatever it's called it's a crappy way to fight a war.

    Sorry I don't mean to flame but so you would agree the Atom bomb on Japan the chemicals on Vietnam and all the Napalm was a crappy way to fight a war:confused:
     
  5. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    I suppose so. Regardless of motivation to using the above mentioned weapon systems, the desired result of armed conflict is to bring it to an end to your favor and on your terms. So if a-bombs or napalm or agent orange or bows and arrows are used to that end, then so be it. Getting run through with a bayonet, stepping on a land mine, or getting brained with an entrenching tool or being starved to death isn't any more glamorous or desirable if you ask me. Any way you chose to dispatch an opponent is a crappy way, but I personally believe chemical warfare to be the worst, but that's just me.
     
  6. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    Although not used?, there was an awful lot of Mustard Gas dumped in Australia and the Pacific Islands during WW2, and still being found and cleaned up. Not to mention the testing on Australian troops during WW2.
     
  7. 26delta

    26delta Senior Member

    There was an awful lot of testing after the Korean war on US troops... And that was by the US Army.
     
  8. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

  9. son of a rat

    son of a rat Senior Member

    What about testing on Exmoor 1941 with Mustard Gas and Lewisite and being a Guinea Pig laying on a large square white board wearing a gas mask and a Lysander Aircraft flying over dropping gas then having to take of your gas mask cough and reach till being told to replace your gas mask then a Scientist takes notes and measures the size and density of the drops.
    The 88th Chemical Warfare company Royal Engineers.
     
  10. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    The Canadian federal government has decided to recognize and compensate veterans who volunteered for secret chemical warfare tests held in Suffield, Alberta and Ottawa primarily during World War II. Eligible veterans will each be offered a payment of $24,000 in recognition of their service to Canada. The payment is in addition to other pension benefits for which the veterans are eligible.
    Chemical Warfare Tests


    During World War II, Canada was building defences to chemical warfare and used Canadian military volunteers as test subjects for experiments with mustard gas and other chemical warfare agents. The experiments were designed to test protective clothing and ointments, and also to assess the different effects of the chemical agents. The chemical warfare tests took place at the Defence Research Establishment in Suffield, Alberta and at the Chemical Warfare Laboratory in Ottawa. About 3500 volunteers were involved.The soldiers were not told that they were to be used as human guinea pigs, just that they were participating in a top-secret assignment. Volunteers received better food, extra leave and an extra 50 cents a day over a period of six weeks. In 1976 there was still a lake on BATUS (Suffield) that we were told was an out of bounds area.



    Nominal Rolls: Lessons Learned From Developing The - Veterans Affairs Canada
     
  11. Jon Horley

    Jon Horley Member

    Do you think it's because gassing is seen akin to poisoning - a cowardly way to murder someone? A poisoner seems to be more despised as a killer (out of combat) than someone who shoots another. Armed combat is seen as more manly, or brave, than laying waste to swathes of your enemy via a chemical agent, rather than a grenade or two or even a bomb. I'm sure I haven't read any accounts praising the bravery of gassers, or, for that matter, those who dropped napalm on Viet villages. In fact, these actions always seem to be slightly embarrassing, as if they're not 'real' war - enemy-vs-enemy in a real sense.
     
  12. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Gas training: A pal told me some years ago about the training cock up. The unit was to undergo live gas training in the field, A low flying Hawker Hunter was going to drop CS gas (awhile ago) the tale is that the gas sentries gave the warnings and all were shouting gas, gas, gas as they kitted up and into the respirator. Much peering at each other as the gas cloud retreated instead of advanced. The pilot had been given the direction of wind and the target point, the wind apparently had not read the exercise brief and did its own thing. Apparently a few miles downwind villagers were collapsing gasping for breath as the cloud of CS hit the village. It made the nationals I do remember reading something about it.
     
  13. son of a rat

    son of a rat Senior Member

     
  14. son of a rat

    son of a rat Senior Member

    Gas training: A pal told me some years ago about the training cock up. The unit was to undergo live gas training in the field, A low flying Hawker Hunter was going to drop CS gas (awhile ago) the tale is that the gas sentries gave the warnings and all were shouting gas, gas, gas as they kitted up and into the respirator. Much peering at each other as the gas cloud retreated instead of advanced. The pilot had been given the direction of wind and the target point, the wind apparently had not read the exercise brief and did its own thing. Apparently a few miles downwind villagers were collapsing gasping for breath as the cloud of CS hit the village. It made the nationals I do remember reading something about it.

    Father said they were also useing Rockets on Exmoor but the higer-ups decided to give the job to the RAF, Sounds like they done a good job on the locals.
     
  15. 26delta

    26delta Senior Member

    Compensation offered to WWII chemical victims is definitely better that what was offered to Vietnam Vets for AO exposure. Our compensation amounted to the equivalent of $2.96 per veteran. Needless to say, I passed my compensation to those who needed it more than I did.
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    [YOUTUBE]ahBvI4pdh9U[/YOUTUBE]

    Just had to get that off my chest after seeing this thread title for a few days.

    Sorry, carry on.
    ~A
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  18. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    There were stories in the serious press many years ago about agents developed during wartime and held in very secure bunkers that scientists were still trying to figure out how to destroy!
     
  19. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    [FONT=&quot]MEDIA RELEASE[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]NEW BOOK DETAILS AUSTRALIA’S CHEMICAL WARFARE HISTORY THROUGH THE EYES OF THE VETERANS EXPOSED TO CHEMICAL WEAPONS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]A new book, Chemical Warfare in Australia, tells the story of the men whose job it was during the Second World War to handle and store a million chemical weapons, which were covertly imported into Australia to counter a possible Japanese invasion.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Author Geoff Plunkett said although the weapons were meant for retaliatory use only, and were never employed, Australian servicemen risked their lives handling the deadly munitions.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]“In January 1943 a wharf labourer subsequently died from the effects of mustard poisoning while unloading mustard gas drumsfrom a ship,” Mr Plunkett said. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Defence authorities realised a specialist group was needed to handle these weapons and the RAAF created the Chemical Warfare Armourers. The new book, published by the Department of Defence’s Army History Unit and Australian Military History Publications,tells their story.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Without notice and adequate training the armourers were sent to tunnels in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney and told they were going to be handling chemical weapons.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Mr Plunkett said the men learnt on the job. “Officers rarely if ever made an appearance and there was inadequate medical supervision. The men were never allowed to talk about their work, even to their families.”[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Protective anti-gas clothing issued to the men had been designed for England and was too hot for use in Australia, so armourers often worked in just shorts and a gas mask. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]“They maintained the weapons by dragging them out of the tunnel to ‘vent’ them and due to their lack of protective clothing the men were daily exposed to the gas and sometimes burnt. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]The men set up experiments on Queensland’s North Brook Island, where soldiers and animals were exposed to the effects of chemical weapons.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]The RAAF armourers were shocked by the effects of the weapons on the so-called human “guinea pigs”. Some tried to talk volunteers out of taking part in the experiments. The armourers were involved in the disposal of weapons and had some near fatal experiences with phosgene, a lethal choking agent.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]“The work of these young, humble blokes was still unknown 65 years on. They suffer health consequences and, because they only served in Australia are uncomfortable attending returned services marches. In addition they not elligible for a Gold Card under the overseas service provisions”.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]“As they didn't go to war overseas they are regarded as bludgers. Their military records don't record any of their chemical warfare activities and doctors denied they were exposed to it,” Mr Plunkett said.[/FONT]
    Mr Plunkett said the details of Australia’s chemical weapons were denied by the government until the late 1980s.


    [FONT=&quot]http://mustardgas.org/
    [/FONT]
     
  20. peaceful

    peaceful Senior Member

    Were not mustard gas effects well known from WWI? Why would they put the youngsters at risk in 1943
     

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