Charles (Chuck) O. Coffman, a B-17 crewman

Discussion in 'US Units' started by tcoffman, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. tcoffman

    tcoffman Junior Member

    Owen:
    Thank you so much for your help and guidance. I must admit my computer skill is minimal. I can tell you how to treat, transport and store a mllion/gals/day of water from my hand held calculator. Public safety would not be so secure on my computer. Thank you, again. I must tell you that I've had the time to come to terms with how intelligent and deeply sincere the character and heart of the people on this site. I am honored that your'e helping me. I am honored to be among you.
     
  2. tcoffman

    tcoffman Junior Member

    Chris,
    He was stationed in England with the 8th AAF. He told me stories about coming back in 17's so shot up they were lucky to clear the Cliffs of Dover.
     
  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Hi Terry,

    A friend of mine's dad was a B-17 crewman. He said they used to call the B-24, 'The box the B-17 came in.' :)
     
  4. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Terry, glad to have you with us.
    Not our usual fare (being mostly U.K./Commonwealth based) but with so many U.S. troops and Airmen being based in U.K. its great to see you here and follow the progress of your research.
    Do you know where in England he was stationed?
    Good luck.

    Mike
     
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Hmm I started compiling a list of heavy bomb groups that received a PUC twice but I only seem to be able to find Mediterranean based groups. Below are confirmed, but there are others I know that aren't listed.

    For example, the group I represent (381st) received 2 citations. I do have a listing of 3 Coffmans flying for the 381st but all were officers.

    Terry, do you happen to know if he was stationed in England (8th AAF) or Italy (15th AAF)


    2nd Bomb Group (15th AAF Italy B-17)
    484th Bomb Group (15th AAF Italy B-24)
    450th Bomb Group (15th AAF Italy B-24)

    He flew 42 missions. It is possible that he flew with two seperate heavy bombardment groups that each earned the PUC (DUC). If was a member of both groups at the time the award was earned, he would be eligible to wear the ribbon with oak leaf device.
    Also, if he earned the award with one group, then transferred to another group that had earned the PUC beforehand, then he would wear his earned ribbon for his action and the oak leaf device for the current unit while he was assigned to that unit.
     
  6. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    B-17s flying out of England kinda limits it to the 92d Bomb Group.

    Was there another heavy bomb group flying out of England that was awarded the DUC/PUC?
     
  7. tcoffman

    tcoffman Junior Member

    Jeff: You may well be on target. In April of '43 the 92nd BG went on detached service, flying with other groups and squadrens. They flew missions over Hamm,Vegesack, Wilhelmshafen and Breman. In July of '42 the 325th BS was actually transferred to Royal AFB in Bovington where it was merged and reorganized into the 92nd BG. Once combat ready they transferred to RAF Alconbury and started flying combat missions, but transferred again to RAF Podington. After 308 total combat missions, they flew the final mission of the war on April 25th, 1945.
     
  8. tcoffman

    tcoffman Junior Member

    Dave: I can only imagine. I'm too sick and too broke now but I've always dreamed of walking through a B-17. I wish I had while I had the chance. He once told me a story about the base chaplain scolding him for using profanity upon landing. He said he tried to explain to the chaplain what it was like to have most of turret glass shot out, all of his urine bags frozen on the turret floor, yet still urinating and sweating while continuously firing the guns (twin 50"s ?) in a 360 to hit anything he could. I get it. He brought it home to me and my mother.
     
  9. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    He flew 42 missions. It is possible that he flew with two seperate heavy bombardment groups that each earned the PUC (DUC). If was a member of both groups at the time the award was earned, he would be eligible to wear the ribbon with oak leaf device.
    Also, if he earned the award with one group, then transferred to another group that had earned the PUC beforehand, then he would wear his earned ribbon for his action and the oak leaf device for the current unit while he was assigned to that unit.

    I never thought of this, you are correct.

    EDIT: However, I have read accounts of men who have flown almost 40 missions in a single tour. Towards the end of the war (as I'm sure you know) the number of missions per tour kept increasing. One example I read recently was of a chap who flew 39 missions on one tour and the war ended before he finished.
    A second view would be that Terry's father may have personally counted 'missions' that were not officially counted towards a tour of duty. To count towards your tour, several conditions had to be met, one of:
    1. Bombing a primary, secondary or tertiary target
    2. Encountering medium to heavy flak
    3. Being fired upon by an enemy fighter.

    If none of those conditions were met, then it didn't officially count, although airmen still added them to their personal tally.

    I think what I'm trying to get at is, that although I initially thought that his DUC may be a clue to where he flew, really it's too broad to narrow it down.

    B-17s flying out of England kinda limits it to the 92d Bomb Group.


    May I ask why you think it's limited to the 92nd? There were probably 2 dozen groups flying B-17s from England.
     
  10. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    Was there another heavy bomb group flying out of England that was awarded the DUC/PUC?

    There were several, as I mentioned earlier the 381st received it twice. 95th BG received it twice. 91st received two. 96th received two. The 305th recieved two etc. Those are just the ones I can think of at the moment. Several DUCs were handed out for the Regensburg leg of the 17/8/43 raids to Schweinfurt and Regensburg and then the subsequent Schweinfurt raid on 14/10/43

    Lets just say, number of groups based in the UK, flying B-17s and receiving at least one DUC = a lot.
     
  11. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Hi Terry

    i would keep an eye on the Aluminum Overcast web page for their 2013 schedule. They go to small airports all over the US. I've seen this one several times over the years.

    EAA's B-17 - Aluminum Overcast
     
  12. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Dave: Thank you for responding. I do have this info from Ancestry.com. My father enlisted in Evansville, Ind. It's also where I was born after the war. Where do I go from here?

    Hi Terry,

    I wanted to wait until I had something for you that may unlock the mystery.

    Accident-Report.com - USAAF Aircrew List

    Your father's name appears here on a list of 1943 accidents and crashes. I am told that it may be for a crash that happened in training in the US or (far more important, I think, to get you the answers you need) in the UK on takeoff or landing.

    Let us know what they say they have so the search can keep moving forward.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  13. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    May I ask why you think it's limited to the 92nd? There were probably 2 dozen groups flying B-17s from England.

    There were several, as I mentioned earlier the 381st received it twice. 95th BG received it twice. 91st received two. 96th received two. The 305th recieved two etc. Those are just the ones I can think of at the moment. Several DUCs were handed out for the Regensburg leg of the 17/8/43 raids to Schweinfurt and Regensburg and then the subsequent Schweinfurt raid on 14/10/43

    Lets just say, number of groups based in the UK, flying B-17s and receiving at least one DUC = a lot.
    That was what I was asking. The 92nd was the only one I could think of at the moment and I don't really have a good reference book on the USAAF to look at. I knew their had to be more given the ferocity of some the air battles fought by the 8th.
     
  14. tcoffman

    tcoffman Junior Member

    Dave: Thanks for the link. I did send them a request but haven't heard back as yet. My concern is that they actually operate their business out of a home in Millville, NJ, which was effected to some extent by the recent storm. I hope they didn't lose any records.

    I did find one incident report that contained some interesting information. B-17 #42-37831 had some sort of hydraulic issue on Nov. 10, 1943. The pilot was George S. Smith, but the crewman were not named. The aircraft, however, was assigned to the 331st Bomb Squadren with the 94 Bomb Group, flying out of Bury St. Edmund. They were awarded the DUC twice. Forgive my ignorence, but are the PUC and the DUC distinctly different, or are they one in the same?
     
  15. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    but are the PUC and the DUC distinctly different, or are they one in the same?
    Different names for the same award.

    Distinctive Unit Citation was the term used in WWII and up until 1957.
     
  16. Dick Olson

    Dick Olson New Member

    That’s Distinguished Unit Citation.
     

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