CHARLES ARTHUR PAUL SHIPMAN Royal Fusiliers

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by CL1, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Found this on a grave in Harrow Eastcote Lane Cemetery ,NW London
    The grave is in a terrible state with only the memorial Re C.A.P.Shipman at the foot readable,I assume the family is no longer around.

    Fusilier CHARLES ARTHUR PAUL SHIPMAN

    14527609, 1st Bn., Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)
    who died age 36
    on 29 November 1943
    Son of Alfred Richard and Charlotte Felicie Shipman; husband of Blanche Shipman, of Harrow, Middlesex.
    Remembered with honour
    SANGRO RIVER WAR CEMETERY
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  2. 2flyersvlt

    2flyersvlt New Member

    Hello
    Thank you for the photo. This is my Grandad. We tried to find his grave a couple of months ago when my sister died as she wanted to be buried there, but there was nothing at all left of it. His body is in Italy. It is nice to have a pictorial record though.
     
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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Charles Shipman
    Given Initials: C A P
    Rank: Fusilier
    Death Date: 29 Nov 1943
    Number: 14527609
    Birth Place: France
    Residence: Middlesex
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Italy
    Regiment at Death: Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: Charles Arthur Paul Shipman
    Age: 36
    Birth Date: abt 1907
    Death Date: 29 Nov 1943
    Cemetery: Sangro River War Cemetery It. 12
    Burial Country: Italy
    Father: Alfred Richard Shipman
    Mother: Charlotte Felicie Shipman
    Regimental Number: 14527609
    Region or Memorial: Italy
    40465_291528-00017.jpg

    Italy, Find A Grave Index, 1800s-Current
    Name: Fus Charles Arthur Paul Shipman
    Maiden Name:
    Death Date: 29 Nov 1943
    Cemetery: Sangro River War Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place: Torino di Sangro, Provincia di Chieti, Abruzzo, Italy
    Has Bio?: N
    URL: https://www.findagrave.com/mem...

    Family tree details
    Charles Arthur Paul Shipman
    Birth: 16 Feb 1907 - Paris, Paris, Île-de-France, France
    Death: 29 Nov 1943 - Italy
    Marriage: Mar 1929 - Hendon, Middlesex, England
    Spouse: Blanche Hall
    F: Alfred Richard Shipman
    M: Charlotte Felicie Fauconnet

    TD
     
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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    He is Remembered at Eastcote lane cemetery,South Harrow
    upload_2018-11-13_22-14-36.png upload_2018-11-13_22-15-9.png


    regards
    Clive
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    From the battalion war diary:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. 2flyersvlt

    2flyersvlt New Member

    Wonderful - I knew some of this, but not all. Thank you
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    I visited the grave today and placed a Poppy Cross.
    If you visit ,the grave is in section S.
    As a marker there is a Commonwealth War Grave ( white Portland stone) with the name P.G.Newman.If you face the grave of P.G.Newman and count 12 actual graves to the right you will find the grave with Shipmans name at the foot of the grave.
    The Ordnance Survey map reference is TQ1364486238

    upload_2018-11-14_16-25-14.png

    upload_2018-11-14_16-24-57.png
    The headstone which is worn: John Hall 6th April 1944
    upload_2018-11-14_16-24-7.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  8. 2flyersvlt

    2flyersvlt New Member

    Thank you so much for that. You are so kind. When I went about three months ago, I couldn’t see the grave at all, so we are going to go back. I’ve just got back from a battlefield tour of France and Belgium so you can guess what this means to me...
     
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  9. 2flyersvlt

    2flyersvlt New Member

    John Hall is my grandmothers father whereas Charles is my grandmothers husband. I must have another family grave in that cemetery and the council told me the wrong one. Thanks to you, a mystery has been solved.
     
  10. V.N.

    V.N. Member

    Hello Clive
    Many thanks for all your work and research. I hope to add some details.
    Hello, 2flyers, (sis). I hope you are well. It was a shock for me to read your comment.

    Burial records, cremation records, grave maps, genealogy and ancestry at Deceased Online

    burial register summary
    last name

    Shipman

    first names

    Alice Charlotte Louise

    burial date

    16 December 1942

    location

    Harrow

    If you make an account here and log in (You don't have to pay anything to reveal which cemetery.)
    It shows Alice shipman (Roy's aunt, and charles'twin sister) as the occupant of the grave.
    By all accounts, she was a wealthy lady, worked for the Government, owned her own house and probably had enough spare cash to pay for this grave. She died at only 35 years old, in 1942, a year before Charles death.
    John hall may have been cremated but the family wanted to have a headstone here with his ashes,not sure about this. But the website definitely doesn't have his burial record at Eastcote.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  11. V.N.

    V.N. Member

    Oooops, sorry about this. On the website, I found john hall as the person buried in the grave pictured above.
    burial register summary
    last name
    Hall
    first names
    John
    burial date
    12 April 1944
    location
    Harrow

    Obviously with small memorial to Charles at the foot edge.
    Which means there's another separate grave for Alice.
     
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    I can go and check the grave to see if any further info is visible although I dont recall seeing any other names
    It is not in the best of condition

    Also I can try to look for Alices grave

    please let me know If you would like me to do this


    regards
    Clive
     
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  13. V.N.

    V.N. Member

    Clive,
    Many thanks for your help.
    I really don't think Alice will be mentioned on the pictured grave. She may have an elaborate resting place of her own and now there's a full name etc, it may be advisable to enquire thru the council before visiting, as they will likely have maps to locate her grave.
    Thank you again
    V.N.
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Alice C L Shipman
    Death Age: 35
    Birth Date: abt 1907
    Registration Date: Oct 1942
    [Nov 1942]
    [Dec 1942]
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration district: Hendon
    Inferred County: Middlesex
    Volume: 3a
    Page: 531

    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: Alice Shipman
    Gender: Female
    Marital status: Single
    Birth Date: 16 Oct 1907
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 65 Shaftesbury Avenue.
    Residence Place: Harrow, Middlesex, England
    Occupation: Translator to Company
    Schedule Number: 284
    Sub Schedule Number: 1
    Enumeration District: BICU
    Registration district: Part of 130/1

    TD
     
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  15. V.N.

    V.N. Member

    Charles shipman's Mother
    Charlotte Félicie Fauconnet
    Born August 18, 1869 - Saint-Léonard-en-Beauce, 41370, Loir et Cher, Center, France
    Deceased in 1916 - Houilles, 78311, Yvelines, Ile-de-France, France, age at death: 47 years old, Preceptor in an English family
    Charles shipman's father
    Généalogie de Alfred Shipman
    Alfred shipman
     
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Interesting - this family tree has slightly different dates

    Charlotte Felicie Fauconnet
    1885–1914
    BIRTH ABT 1885 • St. Advenculture, France
    DEATH 1914 • Houilles, Yvelines, Île-de-France, France

    TD
     
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  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    For your information I obtained the burial details and location map .I have assumed the grave and location details are accurate as supplied by the Deceased on Line website.
    The cemetery as you are aware is on the whole in a very poor state.The plot lettering is not in place within the cemetery.
    The grave includes Alice Shipman (date of burial 16th December 1942 ) and Alfred Richard Shipman (date of burial 19th March 1963).

    Eastcote Lane,Cemetery,Harrow
    The plot is H and grave number 628 .TQ1362686331
    I have included photos of the area.I could not find a Shipman name of any of the graves in the location.However the photos below equate to the grave location.Again I checked all the areas I could within reason without disturbing the bricks and could not find any names.

    upload_2019-9-11_14-29-47.png upload_2019-9-11_14-30-10.png upload_2019-9-11_14-30-26.png upload_2019-9-11_14-30-38.png upload_2019-9-11_14-31-51.png
     
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  18. V.N.

    V.N. Member

    Oh my goodness, Clive,
    Thank you very much for finding the location of Alice shipman and her father Alfred shipman. The damage looks like vandalism to me. Perhaps somebody thought my shipman family was related to the notorious Harold shipman.
    I am so very grateful to you. Perhaps, one day, I shall reinstate the grave
     
  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    No its not vandalism
    The whole graveyard is very boggy during the winter and very dry in the summer causing many of the graves to fall into disrepair.due to weathering.A number have actually sunk.
    The stones of the grave have been carefully placed by the cemetery staff in the same way they have for other graves that have been weather damaged.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    ramacal, Tricky Dicky and V.N. like this.

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