Channel 4. WWII: The Last Heroes

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Driver-op, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I for one would rather go along with Monty's opinion than Delaforce's as the thought to capture Caen early on was a sop to Tedder who had been a bloody nuisance in yapping about getting the airfields near Caen - he was an even bigger nuisance in the Desert when he had Coningham and Brereton cheering him on refighting the BoB...-when they all left for Algiers - Monty and Broadhurst came up with the "CabRank" and British Blitzkrieg - which was so effective at El Hamma - Medjez/Tunis and the great swan to Antwerp....that was pretty barmy !

    Delaforce was a Tank man in 11th Armoured Div - he should have known better and listened to his boss "Pip" Roberts about Monty's arrival in the desert "people say that I am mad - but I can give you a list of those who are certified mad " his next words were that he would knock Rommel out of Africa for six - that's how barmy he was....
    Cheers
     
  2. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    I do think it a shame that the vast majority of the IWM's photo library is never used unless you can strike some sort of 'deal' with them. To be honest, I don't see why deals are needed to offer material for use by those whose aim to publish is not profit.

    The film was available at a reduced rate for veterans or relatives of same.
    The reduction was from 20 quid a reel to 5 pounds but I see no notice to this effect on the current site.
    I can't complain because last time I was there they must have took pity on me because they charged me the vet rate even though they knew I wasn't!
    You can buy some of the same footage in digital format (for 60 odd quid) from the Pathe site and the quality gap is striking.
     
  3. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    That is only for private study. I'm talking about reproducing material. For TV the fee is many hundreds of pounds a second.
     
  4. Dave T

    Dave T Junior Member

    I am always interested inveterans' accounts and never tire of seeing original footage - even when the wrong footage for the subject is used - but I do find the endlessly repeated re-constructed explosions irritating. I wonder if we will see the tank trap somersaulting in every episode.
     
  5. SBULL

    SBULL Junior Member

    Hello all: Stephen Bull here (who did the book to go with Last Heroes). Drew has it about right - just over 80 vets were interviewed. Largest number British, followed by US and Canadian, and 4 Russians. These last should appear in episode 6 assumuning they have not hit the cutting room floor. On budgets whole series was 3.5 million dollars.... Sadly I'm not getting to trouser that little lot :) However at risk of commercial plugging I did manage to get rather more into the book than the series. Out first week of November or coinciding with episodes 3/4.
     
  6. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Stephen, welcome to WW2Talk and thanks for the information.

    Mike
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I for one would rather go along with Monty's opinion than Delaforce's as the thought to capture Caen early on was a sop to Tedder who had been a bloody nuisance in yapping about getting the airfields near Caen - he was an even bigger nuisance in the Desert when he had Coningham and Brereton cheering him on refighting the BoB...-when they all left for Algiers - Monty and Broadhurst came up with the "CabRank" and British Blitzkrieg - which was so effective at El Hamma - Medjez/Tunis and the great swan to Antwerp....that was pretty barmy !

    Delaforce was a Tank man in 11th Armoured Div - he should have known better and listened to his boss "Pip" Roberts about Monty's arrival in the desert "people say that I am mad - but I can give you a list of those who are certified mad " his next words were that he would knock Rommel out of Africa for six - that's how barmy he was....
    Cheers

    Can't be the same chap then - The one on the TV was a Lieutenant in the RHA at Caen in 1944.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello all: Stephen Bull here (who did the book to go with Last Heroes). Drew has it about right - just over 80 vets were interviewed. Largest number British, followed by US and Canadian, and 4 Russians. These last should appear in episode 6 assumuning they have not hit the cutting room floor. On budgets whole series was 3.5 million dollars.... Sadly I'm not getting to trouser that little lot :) However at risk of commercial plugging I did manage to get rather more into the book than the series. Out first week of November or coinciding with episodes 3/4.

    Hi Stephen and welcome to the forum - Thanks for joining in and lets hhope you stick around.

    I think you all need a hearty slap on the back for what you've done - I thinks its rather good.

    Now more importantly when are you and the chaps going to make a documentary on the most important part of the war ;)
     
  9. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Hello Stephen and a warm welcome to the forum. I've been enjoying your series very much indeed. I wonder if you had a view on the discussion thats been aired in this thread on the use of archive footage and the costs involved?
     
  10. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Just a factual comment - having had Patrick Delaforce on a tour with me once many years ago (where he kindly gave me one of his books), he was not a 'Tanky' but did indeed serve as an officer in the RHA.
     
  11. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Hello all: Stephen Bull here (who did the book to go with Last Heroes). Drew has it about right - just over 80 vets were interviewed. Largest number British, followed by US and Canadian, and 4 Russians. These last should appear in episode 6 assumuning they have not hit the cutting room floor. On budgets whole series was 3.5 million dollars.... Sadly I'm not getting to trouser that little lot :) However at risk of commercial plugging I did manage to get rather more into the book than the series. Out first week of November or coinciding with episodes 3/4.

    Welcome Stephen - do keep us informed of your book. We aren't too worried about people plugging their work here, as obviously it's of interest to those who post on a site like this.
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew -
    The Patrick Delaforce - who wrote all those books - was a troop leader - i.e. - Lieutenant of Tanks in 11th Armoured and later a forward observation officer in Holland...no matter what the TV says....

    Now if you want Mr Bull - or anyone else to write about the most important part of the war- then he must study the life and times of Montgomery who also fought at France and the debacle of Dunkirk - then suffered two years of constant defeat and mis steps - until his mentor - Alan Brooke finally was given the opportunity to lay down the strategy which finally led to the Victory - led by the same Montgomery in his resucitation of 8th Army at Alum El Halfa in which Rommel was beaten in a defensive battle followed by the El Alamein attacking Battle which caused Rommel and his forces to retreat until he was fired at Medenine - the victories at Tunisia - Sicily to Rome when the D Day thingi took place and the push through the low countries into Germany..

    So in reality - the most important part of that war was the promotion of Alan Brooke to the position of C.I.G.S. in December 1941- but then I guess you haven't read that far

    Cheers
     
  13. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    He's had quite a life has Patrick Delaforce. The following is from his website:

    Biographical note - PATRICK DELAFORCE

    served with the 11th Armoured Division in the Royal Horse Artillery as a troop leader in Normandy and as FOO in Holland and Germany during the Second World War. He was awarded the Bronze Cross of Orange-Nassau and Mentions in Dispatches during the fighting in Germany. He then joined the 7th Armoured Division at the end of 1945 and commanded Java Troop, 3rd Horse Artillery. After the war he worked as a port wine shipper, and then in advertising, before becoming a professional writer. He has published over twenty books, including a number of travel books, particularly on France, a history of Wellington the Beau, and The Black Bulk From Normandy to the Baltic with the 11th Armoured Division (Alan Sutton, 1993), to which this book is a companion volume.

    Source: Patrick Delaforce Family History Research chapter 1
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Paul
    I bow to your greater and personal account of the Patrick Delaforce who claims that Monty was barmy and to Johnathan for his expanded version if his resume -

    it would appear that I was in error of believing the more than ambiguous statement of his publisher -"Sutton's " who claims on the back flap of the book Monty's Northern Legions - "that Patrick Delaforce fought with 11th Armoured as a troop leader"

    Now to state that a man in 11th Armoured Division served as a troop leader -is synonymous with Tanks and not one word about the Artillery, and to foll0w this with the statement that he als served a a forward observation officer in Holland is equally ambiguous as many tank man did the same task ....

    So honest error caused by the publisher and not the author....
    Cheers
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    After the war he worked as a port wine shipper, and then in advertising, before becoming a professional writer.

    The better half mistakenly thought there'd be nothing to do with WW2 in Porto...

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65616&stc=1&d=1319477723

    Tom: in gunner-speak, half a battery is a troop; doubly so in the RHA whose original role was to support the cavalry.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Paul
    I bow to your greater and personal account of the Patrick Delaforce who claims that Monty was barmy and to Johnathan for his expanded version if his resume -

    it would appear that I was in error of believing the more than ambiguous statement of his publisher -"Sutton's " who claims on the back flap of the book Monty's Northern Legions - "that Patrick Delaforce fought with 11th Armoured as a troop leader"

    Now to state that a man in 11th Armoured Division served as a troop leader -is synonymous with Tanks and not one word about the Artillery, and to foll0w this with the statement that he als served a a forward observation officer in Holland is equally ambiguous as many tank man did the same task ....

    So honest error caused by the publisher and not the author....
    Cheers


    Royal Horse Artillery had and still have Troops. Its one below a Battery. Think King's Troop as the most famous Troop of all ;)


    http://www.army.mod.uk/artillery/units/kings_troop/default.aspx
     
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    OP tanks look the same as normal tanks. 3 of 4th CLY's losses at Villers were OP tanks.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    So...all of us know about the horsed artillery supporting the cavalry which was changed to the RAC but the Artillery didn't change...got it !

    Forgot about my old late friend Eddie Reed who was a Lt.Col in the RHA in Burma in a Tank with a big gun....if it walks like a duck etc ....
    Cheers
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Still a Troop though Tom ;)
     
  20. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew -
    AS I have tried to explain - I have known for many years that a bunch of three Tanks in the ex Cavalry and Tank corps regiments represents a troop - and as I have also stated I had completely forgotten that some Artillery unchanging units such as a half battery of regular Artillery was also known as a troop in similar fashion to a bunch of three self propelled artillery units was likewise known as a troop.

    So - wrongly as it turned out that I made the false assumption that anyone - including the author Lt. Patrick Delaforce - who was known to be a troop leader in an Armoured Division was in fact a Tankie - when in all probability he was the LONE Artillery Officer in the vehicle shown in many of the photos on this thread to be replica's of Tanks......or can I make it any clearer....?
    Cheers
     

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