Change of Regiment

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Barneynotts, May 8, 2018.

  1. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member

    My great uncle, L/Cpl Sidney Barnes 4979262 is listed as being in the 6th Bn of York & Lancs when he was killed in Italy on 02/01/1945. He is buried at Ancona. Yet we believe he enlisted in the Sherwood Foresters as we have a photo with that cap badge showing. (We live in Mansfield and the recruitment was mainly Sherwood Foresters around here) Would it possible to find out how he ended up in the Y&L.
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  3. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member

    I appreciate your help. Thank you.
  4. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    He was wounded twice in Italy serving with the 14th Battalion Sherwood Foresters (27.5.44 and 7.9.1944)
    Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 10.08.24.png
    Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 10.09.19.png

    He is listed as accidently killed and the Regiment is ammended to 6th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment
    Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 10.09.55.png
    Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 10.10.28.png

    Attached Files:

  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Sidney Barnes
    Given Initials: S
    Rank: Lance Corporal
    Death Date: 2 Jan 1945
    Number: 4970262
    Birth Place: Nottinghamshire
    Residence: Nottinghamshire
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Italy
    Regiment at Death: York and Lancaster Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    Looks like he was transferred

    From Ancestry:
    Sidney Barnes
    BIRTH 1916 • Huthwaite, Nottinghamshire, England
    DEATH 2 JANUARY 1945 • Italy

    1941 • Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
    Joined Sherwood Foresters. Was listed as his death in Jan 1945 as serving with York & Lancaster Regiment


    Service records are the answer - as Tony56 link
  6. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    From 'The Story of the 46th Division 1939-1945'

    'With the New Year training started. But on the 2nd January a tragic accident befell the York & Lancasters. Some enemy mines exploded in a room full of men attending a course, causing considerable loss of life and many injuries. This tragedy cast a gloom over the last days in Porto San Giorgio. On the 4th January the dead were buried in Ancona Military Cemetery.'

    List of casualties from the 6th Y&L for that day

    6th Y&L - Diary of Events 1943-45 - 011.jpg

  7. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member


    Thank you so much. Very Helpful information indeed.

  8. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member


    Thank you all so much.
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Regards the 14th Sherwood Foresters.
    BBC - WW2 People's War - History of the Sherwood Foresters
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  10. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    From the Missing Personnel file for Italy (WO 361-830) for the 14th Foresters there's an acquittance roll which includes Sidney Barnes, showing him in 'B' Company for the early part of 1944. It also confirms him being wounded in action on 07/09/44.
    The file also indicates they started to attack the village of San Savino (MR 863843) around this date (started the night of 5/6th September), so likely he was wounded local to this village.


    Also within the file is a 'present location request' dated 12/12/1944 which notes Sidney as still being 14th Foresters but on the X(ii) List. Also correspondance confirming his death as a 'battle accident' 2/1/45


    WO_361_830_0046.jpg WO_361_830_0019.jpg
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  11. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member

    All brilliant stuff. I really appreciate your help
  12. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member

    Just reading through Clanky Pencil's War Office pages, it appears that in December 44 they still attribute Sidney to B Coy 14th S/Foresters. ( what does C.M.F. stand for?) Does that mean the War Graves Commission may have made a mistake about which regiment he was actually serving in.
  13. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    C.M.F. = Central Mediterranean Force

    The reference to the X(ii) List is the relevant part. From this other thread X LISTS

    'THE X (ii) LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond Regimental First Aid Post. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units. Temporary or acting rank will be relinquished 28 days after being so transferred to X (ii) list. Personnel
    remain in X (ii) list until they are classified as fit for posting when they are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps and marched out to the appropriate training depot, or until discharged by a medical unit direct to their original units.

    So from the info posted above it's likely he was either still recovering from his wounds he received in September and therefore not part of the foresters 'effective strength', or as the 14th Foresters was being disbanded he was in the process of being transferred to the 6th York & Lancs.

    Either way it seems he was only with the 6th Y & L's for a matter of weeks before being accidentally killed.

    Getting his service records should give you more exact details
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  14. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member


    If you start a conversation with me I will send you the page from the War Diary for 6 Y&L for 2 Jan 45 which detailed exactly what happened on that fateful day.

    Very small world too. I was guiding a battlefield study to the Gothic Line on 19-22 Apr 18 which included a family whose relation had been killed in the same training accident. We popped into Ancona CWGC to see Pte Alwyn Leather and tip our hat. It was horrifying to see all 18 soldiers killed in the incident taking up an entire row in the cemetery. The row seemed to go on forever.


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  15. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member


    14 FORESTERS were part of 18 Infantry Brigade which were the foot soldiers in support of the tanks of 1 Armoured Division. They were a bit of a rent a mob.

    They spent a long time in Anzio once the beachhead disaster had stabilised at the end of Feb 44 - they were rushed there to prop up 1 Infantry Division and stayed until the end of May 44.

    They rejoined 1 Armoured Division and fought on the Gothic Line in the First and Second Battles of Coriano in Sep 44. When 1 Armoured Division was broken up, they were transferred to 168 Infantry Brigade. Some soldiers must have been transferred to 46 Infantry Division - all Divisions were short and in need of reinforcements - including your great uncle. With NW Europe being the priority for fresh manpower, the commanders in Italy had no choice but to cannibalise their units to fill the gaps.


    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  16. Barneynotts

    Barneynotts Member


    Thanks for all the info

  17. Phill Kennedy

    Phill Kennedy Member

    Hi, I see this thread is a couple of years old but I thought I'd message you in the hope you might be able to answer a quick question. Did you ever establish the reason for the change of regiment? I've a similar situation. My grandfather served with the Royal Ulster Rifles then for some reason during the fighting in Holland in 1944 he switched to the Lincolnshire regiment, and 7 days later he was seriously wounded. I've been informed that he might have been filling gaps left by fighting, however I would have thought this would have been done on a temporary basis, and that he should have returned to the RUR.
  18. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Phill, One of the problems with posting a number of times is that members will find it difficult to get the full picture as different answers will appear on different threads ie I am not sure were it is best to post this, so here are various links.

    Changing regiment RUR to Linc's
    Changing regiment query
    Assistance with Tracing Casualty from 2 Royal Ulster Rifles 29 November 1944?

    You say in one of your other posts that "A relative found my grandfather's service record", while that is possible, did he find his official records? That would be a great stroke of luck as they are only available from one place, best to get them for all the answers:

    Get a copy of military service records
  19. Phill Kennedy

    Phill Kennedy Member

    Thanks for your input Tony. I've been researching my grandfather's service for a number of months now. If you look at the other threads I've been involved in, they were at different times during this journey. The conversations directed my research and you will likely have seen that I said I've have requested the full records from the mod, but due to the current situation I have not heard back. The service record found by a relative was a hand written document from a number of years ago and was with other personal documents stored by a relative.

    I believed my current query was of a more general nature and was simply asking if anyone else had encountered a similar situation and when I searched changing regiments and saw this post from 2018 I thought I'd ask if the questioner ever obtained closure.

    With regards to the two posts in the last day or two, I didn't realise I'd posted in the introduction section and immediately contacted admin and requested they delete this post, this does not seem to have been deleted yet. I then posted in the general information section, where the question should have been asked.

    Apologies if this has upset you.

    Attached Files:

  20. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Phil, not upset at all, didn't mean to sound that way. It is just that different bits of information will end up on different posts making it very hard to follow.

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