Book Review 'Catch That Tiger' - Churchill's secret order that prompted the most dangerous mission of WW2

Don't look at me - I ain't paying him. :p

 

25 Tk Bde REME Wksp: WO 169/8920

The downside is that it's from July 1943.

Got it: 25 Tank Bde REME WO 175/209 Jan-Jun 1943.

Done my bit - don't send the bill here!

 

Cheers Andrew.

Adam - I take it there is no mention in the book of who Lidderdale's unit was?

Do the authors know?

 

WO 175/1082 104 Army Tk. Wksp. April 1943

WO 175/1076 25 Inf. Tps. Wksp. 1943 June

The last one is the closest to 25 Bde Workshops and could quite possibly be one and the same, incorrectly named.



Drew,

Both are correct,

Unlike 25th Tank Brigade, 21st was an Army Tank Brigade a constituent part of 1st Infantry (Mixed) Division. It was the only ill conceived and unworkable mixed division deployed and was renamed, at the conclusion of hostilites in Tunisia, 21st Tank Brigade becoming, as was the 25th TB, an independent unit. Oddly enough, Churchill Brigades - other than the Guards - were in mixed divisions almost up to D-Day.

The title was changed to 25 Inf. Tps. Wksp. in June pending its tranfer to 21 TB.

Let me know if you plan to copy - if not hopefully I can make it to the NA before my return to the US on July 1st.

Gerry

 

Having checked each one of the 276 pages of "Catch the Tiger" highlighting each questionable entries on the way, assembling all the relevant records is under way. Shortly after my return to the US the findings will be posted.

Sadly what could have been an interesting read is marred by the fictional statements/errors contained therein.

Gerry

PS Adam, the recorded number of my postings hasn't changed for a long time.

 

Gerry - et al

Bit of a typo there as 21st ATB served in 4th Mixed Div until December '43 becoming independent and replaced in 4th INF Div by 28th Inf Bde of 2nd Soms - 2nd Kings L'pool-
1st Agiles & Sufferins PLUS 2/4th Hampshires......and as you are aware - we both joined 1st Canadian Div at Lucera in April '44- with 25th TB taking them through the Liri Valley and 21st TB taking them all the rest of the way until they left Italy for Belgium in the Feb '45.....and your NIH replacing the 145th RAC in 21st Armoured bde until the end

Cheers
Tom

 

I have just made an executive decision (really to rest my weary fingers)) to shorten Part Two with the excuse there are enough nails in the book's coffin!

Anyway here are two links:
http://northirishhorse.net/Catch-TIger/Part-1.html
http://northirishhorse.net/Catch-TIger/Part-2.html


Seriously, the motivation for doing this is to honour the memory of every chap to went to war in a tank, many of whom gave their lives when so doing.

As always,

Cheers, Gerry.

PS
Despite having some expert advice at this end I still cannot find a way to place the findings into the book's lack of authentiticy as a posting.

 

Gerry

Masterly critique !

As my old Sgt.Major was wont to say "Well done that there man !"

Best regards

Ron

 

Gerry

Lots of arguments for bugger all really - just proves my point that many authors
have lowered themselves and their profession by fictionalizing the truth in their mad dash for filthy lucre - but the damage they are causing to future students - when we are NOT here to correct them frightens me - so I can only agree with Ron and echo his "well done that there man "

I have some of the 12th RTR war diaries but only that portion from June - Dec '44 - which is after the Liri valley to the break up of 25th and your move to 21st TB
Cheers
Tom

 

Great analysis, Mr Chester. Thanks

What destruction.

To use the old boxing analogy, "If it was a fight, they would have stopped it!"

Dave

 

Well done Gerry.

All the best

Andreas

 

The book was mentioned indirectly by David Fletcher during his Tankfest commentary last Sunday. The word 'fiction' was mentioned.

I was videoing the Tiger at the time so, if anyone would like me to post a transcript of what he said, I can do that. Only problem is that I will have to watch all my Tankfest video again...... Lots of tanks but also some wingy-thingys

 

Having dissected Catch That Tiger, it is a pleasure to find that something has of probable interest to our technically minded members - The report on Pz.Kw. VI (Model 'H") the examiner being Major A.D. Lidderdale, A.M.T.Mech.E., R.E.M.E. - discovered during the recent visit to the National Archives.

Fair's fair.

Gerry

 

Good comment Gerry, and Lidderdale clearly did some good work in the line of duty in the same way that's lots of you did. No-one is doubting that. However, more people will see the book than the file in the NA; to me the book is still a case of "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story". As was said earlier in this thread, Lidderdale probably liked to spin a good yarn and there is nothing wrong with that except this book is presented as 'fact' where it is clearly more along the lines of an overdramatised docu-drama and should therefore be classified as fiction.

 

Well done that man! An excellent demolition job.

 

My goodness. There are none so blind as those who will not see. There are various brigade and regimental legends about Tiger 131. Legends are just that. Legends. Not the truth. There were only the 48th Battalion Royal Tank Regiment, and the 1/6 East Surreys backed by artillery anywhere near Djebel Mehirigar when the action took place on April 21st which led to the abandoned Tiger being discovered on the morning of 22nd April. The NIH were not there. There were plenty of casualties including the CO of the Surreys.
No-one has ever explained how Tiger 131 came to be discovered, minus its crew, near Allied lines and close to Peter Gudgin's wrecked Churchill. Any version given until now has been based purely on speculation.
Catch That Tiger offers new information, based on the diaries and reports of a well respected officer. Major Lidderdale did not 'like to spin a good yarn' as some of you have commented. He was a serious and rather reserved man who lived a very successful and happy life after the army. Apart from the written versions his son, David, found him reluctant to recount his adventures. But he was always angry that his team had never been given the recognition he believed they deserved.
Because it does not fit the myths and legends so beloved by some of you and actually explains how Tiger 131 came to be in the position it was found, you mostly pour scorn on the account and dismiss it as a vehicle for 'making filthy lucre'.
Where on earth is your objectivity.
Those I know who have read the book absolutely loved it. Everyone of the Amazon reviews gives it the maximum five stars.
You may not like the page turning style in which it is written but I find it very sad that you cannot accept new and factual details about an old and well loved story. There is no doubt in my mind that Lidderdale was made of the right stuff. Why should this stick in anyone's craw?
And by the way, for those who reject this fact to. There were Churchill tanks in North Africa in late 1942.
Please open your minds if not your eyes.
Noel Botham (Co author Catch That Tiger)

 

Who is disputing Kingforce's participation?
Surely no-one in their right mind would deny that their were Churchills in N.A in October 1942?

 

Playing devil's advocate, surely Lidderdale's inclusion in the April strength returns only proves he was with 104 A Tks Wksp in an administrative - not necessarily physical - sense?

 

For another dimension,Bovington have a DVD for sale entitled "Saving the Tiger 131"

The preface reads:

(According to this preface,Peter Gudgin's Churchill was knocked out by Tiger 131.)