Book Review 'Catch That Tiger' - Churchill's secret order that prompted the most dangerous mission of WW2

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by BlakePub, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Don't forget that the Royal Australian Air Force did it's bit too -

    North West Africa: Tunisia, Tunis

    c May 1943

    RAAF airmen inspect a knocked-out German Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf E (commonly known as Tiger 1) tank.




    Permalink: MEC0003 | Australian War Memorial
     
  2. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    And -

    NORTH AFRICA. 1943-06. HIS MAJESTY KING GEORGE VI WITH GENERAL ANDERSON AND OTHER OFFICERS INSPECTING A GERMAN PANZERKAMPFWAGEN VI TIGER HEAVY TANK. (BRITISH ADMIRALTY PHOTOGRAPH, BNA3693).

    Permalink: 128503 | Australian War Memorial
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Yeah, this one featuring Steven Seagall as cook in a Tiger crew. Do not forget to add the stripper inside Hitler's birthday cake :D
     
  4. BlakePub

    BlakePub John Blake Publishing

    Mr von Poop
    You are correct in stating that the blurb for the book on Amazon was a severe paraphrasing of the actual account. In the book great credit is given to the other participants on the battlefield, including those who damaged Tiger 131 with at least two direct hits. Without their prior success the capture of 131 would not have been achieved.
    It was Brigadier Richard Maxwell, commander of the 25th Tank Brigade who ordered the two week delay on recovering the Tiger from the battlefield. Sadly, soon afterwards he was badly injured by a land mine.
    Someone mentioned in a posting on this web site that, as an author, I had no previous military books to my credit. I co wrote the very successful Peter Ratcliffe book 'Eye of the Storm' which is widely regarded as one of the best books ever written on the special forces and which is still regularly reprinted after twelve years. Described by critics as 'a landmark work'.
    Noel Botham
     
  5. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Someone mentioned in a posting on this web site that, as an author, I had no previous military books to my credit...

    Not doubting the above, it goes without saying that in any field before his first book any author will have no previous publishing experience in that field, so that won't be such a fundamental objection.

    As for the dialogue above,

    Clipboard02.jpg

    assuming it is as published allow me to ask you this: is it a dramatisation, an invention or a transcript of an actual dialogue between the Führer and the Chief of Operations, OKW? If the latter can you provide a source?

    You are aware that things like this existed, aren't you? link

    For clarification:
    After the French campaign in 1940, 54 PzKpfw III were adapted for crossing water, which should be used in Operation Seelöwe (the invasion of England). All exterior openings of the vehicle were sealed with a water-tight compound, and the gap between the hull and turret was closed by an inflatable rubber ring. Rubber sheeting covered the commander's cupola, the mantlet and the hull machine-gun, but this could be blown away from inside the vehicle by means of an electrical detonator. Air was supplied to the engine by a flexible 18-metre long hose (200mm in diameter), which was held on the surface by a buoy, exhaust gases being carried upwards through two tall vertical pipes fitted with non-return valves. Maximum safe diving depth of the Tauchpanzer was 15 metres. These 'diving tanks' were intended to be deployed from freight barges, and a command boat should provide course directions. These vehicles were used later in Russia to cross the many rivers which were delaying obstacles for the panzers. Instead of the rubber snorkel, the tanks were fitted with a 3.5 meter steel pipe as an air intake. On June 22, 1941, these vehicles crossed the Bug underwater, with no need for the building of bridges for the surprise attack.


    Two photos originated from Signal magazine. These are the Tauchpanzers crossing the Bug at the beginning of Barbarossa. The latter pic happened to be a centre-spread in Signal magazine. Don't tell me Adolf had never heard of diving tanks.

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  7. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    Me too, definitely.

    Even if it's only chutzpah!


    Lets have a screenplay along the lines of "Battleship" :smile:

    OK, so initial (accurate Hollywood style) casting stands at:

    Field Marshal Rommel - Denzel Washington
    General Montgomery - Billy Connelly
    Winston Churchill - Jackie Chan
    Adolf Hitler - Sigourney Weaver

    Panzer Gefrieter Kranken-Shaft - Steven Segal
    Australian gunner - Russell Crowe
    Irish gunner - Ewan McGregor
    English gunner - Sanjeev Bhaskar

    Panzer 131 to be played by an M46 Patton...
     
  8. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Where's the documentary evidence that HRH went specifically to see the Tiger, and not to visit the Armies that had achieved a very major victory (and then while there was taken to see the Tiger)?

    I.e. can you document that the purpose was to visit the Tiger, and the remainder, e.g. his visit to Tripoli to 8 Army HQ, was incidental to the Tiger visit?

    THE BRITISH ARMY IN TUNISIA 1943 | Imperial War Museums#

    That's a brave claim.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  9. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books


    OK, so initial (accurate Hollywood style) casting stands at:

    Field Marshal Rommel - Denzel Washington
    General Montgomery - Billy Connelly
    Winston Churchill - Jackie Chan
    Adolf Hitler - Sigourney Weaver

    Panzer Gefrieter Kranken-Shaft - Steven Segal
    Australian gunner - Russell Crowe
    Irish gunner - Ewan McGregor
    English gunner - Sanjeev Bhaskar

    Panzer 131 to be played by an M46 Patton...

    Where's Nicolas Cage?

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Does it have an ashtray?

    And a champagne bottle and cup holder?

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Some Poster ideas for you, AHD.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Back on track.
    I haven't really 'stated' anything Noel. Just wondering really.

    And the blurbs we've seen will have to be pretty strong distortions if some of the things people have objected to prove not to be included in the book.
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    OK, let's get cracking:
    Tiggerbok.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  13. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    The book appears to be a blend of fact, 'extended/manipulated' i.e. over-dramatised fact, dubious fact, tongue-in-cheek fact/fiction, pure fiction and likely pure invention. As a result, it is not possible for the lay reader to differentiate between all of this fact versus fiction. The really lay reader will assume it is all fact which, in my mind, represents a great insult to all those other people involved in the capture of 131. Extend the logic just one stage further and it would appear Lidderdale won the War all by himself!

    This book can therefore, in my mind, only be considered as a docu-drama and should openly and honestly present itself as such. By presenting itself as 'fact written in an entertaining style' it has done great harm and dis-service to the people involved in 131's capture etc. I believe it has also harmed the reputation of Lidderdale himself who, like lots of others involved, was doing his (good) job of work during WW2. Goodness knows what Lidderdale's family think of this, especially his son who, it appears, gave the authors full access to family papers etc . Only they will know that of course but I can only assume that they proof read the manuscript prior to publication so are fully aware!


    Von Poops posting immediately above was made while I was drafting this message. As far as I'm concerned, the contents of the book will have to be pretty darned good to mitigate even what it says on the front cover "astounding and most dangerous mission of WW2".........come on........give us a break! If true, shouldn't Lidderdale have got a VC and Bar?
     
  14. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Here's my view. Assuming that the book is actually based on the late Colonel's diaries, then it appears to me that he might have liked to spin a ripping yarn. Nothing wrong with that - just it ain't non-fiction.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I'm looking forward to reading Adam's review of the book as so far apart from the Author he's the only one on this thread who has actually got a copy to hand.
     
  16. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Well now Adam has the book.....let the 'dog see the rabbit' and lets see what the conclusion is;)
     
  17. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

  18. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    ...dubious fact, tongue-in-cheek fact/fiction, pure fiction and likely pure invention.

    If it were advertised as such there would be no problems at all, after all not many among us have not read Sven Hassel's books in our misguided and ignorant youths and were delighted by those. However nowadays we are no longer misguided nor ignorant and our ability to be amazed is diminished. And in our jaded years most of us when we go and buy bananas can tell by looking at it's skin whether the interior is likely to be fruity gold or stale mash. Aye, we can tall whizzo butter from a dead crab.
     
  19. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Well said mate, it will make for interesting reading especially in the light of the debate.
     
  20. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    It would appear to me that this account is similar to the Telemark film where in order the attract the film buffs and fullfil a financial return,Kirk Douglas was introduced into an entirely fiction role as a character involved at the heart of the operation.

    While the film drew the audiences at the time,anybody seeing it now,the uninformed would think it was a genuine account of the Telemark operation.

    But let us not detract from the efforts of the REME, Douglas Lidderdale and his accomplishment in the exercise to recover the 131.While they perhaps were not involved in the dynamics of the battlefield,they discharged a difficult task on the battlefield in the recovery of armour and vehicles for repair or the recovery of spares.It was not an easy task and this was brought to me over 50 yeays ago when I did the coordinating of work by maintenance mechanical fitters who were fine tuning our heavy mechanical plant in order to keep it in tip top shape.

    The chargehand mechanical fitter related to me once, although the job was dirty,hot and exhausting,it could not approach his experience on the Western Desert battlefields when he served with the REME. He said you would never know what you would find in the aftermath on the battlefield when recovering armour and vehicles.I got the impression it could be gruesome work.

    Incidentally,just looking through Peter Gudgins book,he acknowledges the assistance given by Douglas Lidderdale,Peter Fletcher of the BTM and on the German side,August Seidensticker,the former commander of s.Pz.Abt.504 and Hans-George Lueder,former commander of s.Pz.Abt.501 plus others such as George Forty.That's what makes Peter's work so interesting and technically refining to anybody interested in military mechanical engineering.

    Peter Gudgin gives credit to Douglas Lidderdale's involvement in recovering 131 without embellishing the facts.
     

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