Car boot sale find

Discussion in 'General' started by vespa100, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    TD you beat me to it!
    Looking closer I think the bugle is complete and just needs a mouthpiece. Most tend to be silver coloured these days and I don't think that would look out of place.
    Be warned though there are different mouthpieces around for bugles, cornets, trumpets etc and different cup sizes for each of those. Some can be very expensive but it shouldn't be difficult to pick up a brass or silver piece cheaply. To the average guy any mouthpiece that fits would look ok but I think only a bugle mouthpiece would have a chain loop on it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  2. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    Silly question but would people say this Ww1 or Ww2 era please
     
  3. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    RA Brigades were renamed Regiments in 1938, so i’d say pre WW2
    My Grandad served in the 83-84 & 85 Bde’s
    Rob
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  4. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Vespa,

    I'm not sure if this will help? According to info in the following forum the firm of R.J. Ward & Sons closed down about 1931.

    Chiff and Fipple Forums • View topic - Ward Liverpool, Any ideas?

    The number 60986 might be a clue to manufactring date. For example there was one sold at Christie's with number 57065 said to be circa 1883.

    A WHITE STAR LINE BUGLE, CIRCA 1883

    There are several on the web of bugles made by the company in the 20s which show the year of manufacture. For example:

    Antique military copper Bugle with lots of character-engraved RJ Ward & Sons, Liverpool 1927 | bidorbuy.co.za

    When was the 87th BDE. R.A. T.A. formed? The story of Edward Pritchard who joined the "old" 87th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery in 1923 as a band boy at Wellington Road barracks, Wavertree, can be found here with two poor quality photos of the band:

    Liverpool And Merseyside Remembered - Edward Pritchard

    Regards ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    vespa100 likes this.
  5. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    87th Brigade RA does not equate to 87th Field Regt RA, most Brigades were broken up & reformed with others to form a new Regt
    87 Bde was a heavy howitzer Bde not a normal field Bde
    As to formation date of 87 Bde, They were regular army (TA) & part of Kitcheners New Army in 1915.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    CL1 likes this.
  6. vespa100

    vespa100 Member

    Thanks everyone great information, I will need to do more research
     
  7. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    So Rob is referring to the 87th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery which was part of the 19th (Western) Division in WW1 and appear not to have much of a connection to the Lancaster and Liverpool area. Not sure what became of them post war.

    To echo Staffsyeoman (post 2) I did come across the following quote on a medals page devoted to Lieutenant-Colonel E.R.W. Bullen:

    "On the 1st April 1920 he relinquished his commission and in 1923 was appointed a Captain in the 87th (1st West Lancs.) Brigade, R.F.A. Territorial Force (formally 275th Brigade)"

    The 275th (1st West Lancs) Brigade RFA was part of the 55th (West Lancashire) Division during WW1. That's the only slim reference I can find of the origins of the 87th (1st West Lancs.) Field Brigade.

    Although it may be a red herring I emailed the administrator of the Liverpool site asking if he could decipher the writing on the 1923 photo.

    Regards ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    CL1, vespa100 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  8. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Vespa 100. At last, one has finally got my hands on the bugle that i mentioned in my post 4. It has a look so much like that TD has posted in his post 20. It seems to have a lanyard around it. Not sure of the colours? I have only once seen a lanyard that was presented at a reunion of my Grandfathers Regiment. A tear, finger over the corner of the eye job. Hoping to take some pics when I get home.

    Regards
    Stu.
     
    vespa100 likes this.
  9. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Vespa, I've finally managed to get some photos sorted. Please see the following. Can any one tell me if it is a lanyard, or not? Also, how about the pair of tassels. Should they be there? My mate at work would be interested to find out. He has cleaned it some what!
    Has to what degree I'm not sure? Has far has I can see it is all brass with copper plate. The badge is not straight & some what blurred. Any help on this would appreciated.

    Regards
    Stu... P.S. It takes a pair of lungs of the size of a elephant to make any bugle sing.. I'd be no good. I nearly popped me ear drum.


    rsz_20171212_154852.jpg rsz_20171212_154852.jpg
    20171212_154907.jpg
    rsz_20171212_154920.jpg
    20171212_155157.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
    vespa100 likes this.
  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Stuart this photo from
    Weapons & Military Props
    appears very similar to your friends bugle?

    [​IMG]

    Vespas bugle appears to have been Fire damaged looking at the photographs ? The tubes appear to be expanded due to heat? (See oxidisation) the bugle also appears to have been partially buried at some time (oxidisation difference on upper and lower parts)


    Kyle
     
    vespa100 likes this.
  11. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017

Share This Page