Captured Ammo

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by raf, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. raf

    raf Senior Member

    question for the veterans.

    in films you see people rounding up enemy guns etc putting them in a pile and burning them.

    i would have thought that any captured equipment like guns, granades Ammo tanks if re-painted would have been some use to you at the time or sent elsewhere were supplies may have been short.

    like just before the fall off france the RAF bombed some of the French ships wouldnt it have been off some use to us as a gun battery in Gib or the channel or as an extra escort.
     
  2. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    in films you see people rounding up enemy guns etc putting them in a pile and burning them.




    What films are these, our here allways saves the day by snatching the nemey machine gun ans mowing them down.
     
  3. raf

    raf Senior Member

    maybe it was a more recent war film cant really remember just got the impression that the rifles werent of any use to them but in WWII i suppose any captured ammo would have been used.

    any ideas on why we bombed the french fleet rather than take it....
     
  4. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    maybe it was a more recent war film cant really remember just got the impression that the rifles werent of any use to them but in WWII i suppose any captured ammo would have been used.

    any ideas on why we bombed the french fleet rather than take it....

    Why do you think, the French wouldnt give up and the RN could not aford any of the ships to fall into Axis hands. Was not an option and doubt doubt for one miniute that capturing those ships was formost inb the Germans minds. Who was it who said " Your either with us or against us".

    Coming back to your earlier point a big problem in captured small arms is that getting a good supply of ammunition. the German rifles where not comatable with the UK .303 or the US .3 cartridges so unless you catured a large amount of amunition it was useless. The most sought after weopens where the MP40 and pistols, not just cos they where much better then the allied versions not cos the allied 9mm pistol cartridge could be used. Using captured war material though a common practice comes with problems, not
    least being mistaken for an enemy by your own side.

    Its an interesting point, but I think the realality and practicality of using any captured material over any lenght of time means It didnt really happen that much.

    Theres souvenier hunting, buts thats another thing.

    I suppose there some good examples and maybe some of the more knowledgable posters can help but Ivce never really read an awfull ot of it happening.

    HTH

    Kev
     
  5. raf

    raf Senior Member

    cheers kev... question answerd
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    If i remember rightly Sapper has told us that though an excellent design the MP40 was not a wise choice as a captured weapon, it's sound could attract intense fire from your own side. I assume the same stands for many captured smallarms.

    Germany used a fair amount of captured 76.2mm Russian AT guns, even mounted a couple of hundred onto returned for repair Pz.II chassis (Marder1). They had however captured a lot of Ammunition to go with them. Captured gear is always going to be a stop-gap measure, the very fact it's needed illuminates your own sides inadequacies in supply.
     
  7. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Excellent shot of Cuckoo in action, hadn't noticed that one.
    I can see I need to put aside another hour or two to read some more of your site.
    (Last visit there and recent reading have given me an increasing urge to make a Kingforce churchill as my next kit.:))
    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  9. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    If i remember rightly Sapper has told us that though an excellent design the MP40 was not a wise choice as a captured weapon, it's sound could attract intense fire from your own side. I assume the same stands for many captured smallarms.

    Captured gear is always going to be a stop-gap measure, the very fact it's needed illuminates your own sides inadequacies in supply.

    Sounds like a lack of fire discipline in Sappers outfit. Would really suck if you were on patrol and the guys in the line started firing on you because some Kraut got spooked and let his burp gun rip in your direction.

    Captured gear was kept or disguarded depending upon how well it served in battle. Some of it might be booby trapped with those toe poppers. Always thought it risky for Americans to drive around in German tanks with P-47s in the neighborhood.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    [​IMG]
    Gerry, link to this photo didn't work so had to type it into browser.
    I'll paste it here for others to see in case they had the same problem.
     
  11. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    The Russians burn and destory the captured guns and ammos.
    Thats because the soldiers are dont know how to use them best.And Stalin aweys teach the Soviet soldiers that the Russian weapons are the best in the world..(The Soviet Red Army doesen't even know what is happaning in the west front they dont even know where England and France is)
     
  12. Reverend Bob

    Reverend Bob Senior Member

    raf,

    The answer to your question is subjective, it would really depend on the the unit or squad's mission orders. Captured equipment, food, medical supplies, ammo, weapons, etc. are used on a need basis, if you can be sure they have not been booby trapped or poisioned. If a unit is on the move, excess is destroyed, even if it's your own gear, your luck meeting these weapons a second time may not be quite as charmed. Remember, if it can go wrong, you have no idea how really wrong it will go next time.

    Cheers Mate!
    Rev Bob
     
  13. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    The Russians burn and destory the captured guns and ammos.
    Thats because the soldiers are dont know how to use them best.And Stalin aweys teach the Soviet soldiers that the Russian weapons are the best in the world..(The Soviet Red Army doesen't even know what is happaning in the west front they dont even know where England and France is)

    When the Germans advanced into Russia, they came across groups who were that isolated they didn't even know who Stalin was and that there was a war on!!
     
  14. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    The Russians burn and destory the captured guns and ammos.
    Thats because the soldiers are dont know how to use them best.And Stalin aweys teach the Soviet soldiers that the Russian weapons are the best in the world..(The Soviet Red Army doesen't even know what is happaning in the west front they dont even know where England and France is)

    Not entirely true, The Russians don't throw things away as habbit.

    The largest supply of "dicked with" K98s come from Russia and Eastern Block countries. They were reserial numbered and many have a nasty X marking on the rifle designating them as Russian captures not veteran bring backs. Not valued by serious collectors, those K98s make great shooters for the range.

    Wehrmacht equipment was sold all over the world by all the allied nations. German equipment was used by the Israelis throughout the 50s and 60s. The Chinese Nationalists used German Equipment along with the Norwegian Army, the Bosnians and the Mujadin.
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Not entirely true, The Russians don't throw things away as habbit.

    The largest supply of "dicked with" K98s come from Russia and Eastern Block countries. They were reserial numbered and many have a nasty X marking on the rifle designating them as Russian captures not veteran bring backs. Not valued by serious collectors, those K98s make great shooters for the range.

    Wehrmacht equipment was sold all over the world by all the allied nations. German equipment was used by the Israelis throughout the 50s and 60s. The Chinese Nationalists used German Equipment along with the Norwegian Army, the Bosnians and the Mujadin.

    I'd agree with BulgarianSoldier that the Russians didn't make much use of the captured weapons but they were definitely strangely methodical about collecting and storing stuff (Uniform examples too..), last year huge amounts of MG34's, 42's, pistols, rifles etc. Flooded onto the market. Enough to make the price of Deac MG42's (not Yugo ones) drop by quite a chunk. And apparently this was only a fraction of what's still in store.
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Edited I was talking rubbish!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I always thought 'Cuckoo' belonged to the Coldstream Guards?
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    looked it up again, 4th Armoured Battalion Coldstream Guards
    Quite a good account here:
    http://www.twenot.nl/cuckoo.htm

    (great shot of the 251 by the way Owen)
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Here's the Driver of Cuckoo.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/39/a2773839.shtml

    Ron Hancock Coldstream Guards
    After crossing the Rhine we had a German Panther tank which our infantry captured, and although I was a Sargent I was detailed the driver, which we used for some time against the Germans.


    From http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm
    Small number of captured Panthers was also pressed into service by British (e.g. Ausf G "Cuckoo" from 4th Battalion of 6th Coldstream Guards Tank Brigade, North-West Europe, 1944/45), Canadian, French and American units and three were used by the Polish Home Army during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944, against its former owners. Also small number was captured and operated by the French resistance in mid 1944. They took part in fighting in the Rouen area, where two of them were destroyed on August 30th of 1944 by Tigers from sSSPzAbt 102. This was probably the most interesting combat situation involving Panthers.

    So does that last statement mean the French were fighting in the Panthers against the Tigers?
    Anymore info on that Battle out there?
     

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