Capt. BB French, 1/6 East Surrey Regiment Attd. Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 21 April 1944

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by noggin1969, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Any info please :

    FRENCH, BASIL BICKERSTAFF

    Rank: Captain

    Service No: 160537

    Date of Death: 21/04/1944

    Age: 25

    Regiment/Service: East Surrey Regiment 1/6th Bn. Attd. Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)

    Grave Reference: 11. C. 6.

    Cemetery: KOHIMA WAR CEMETERY

    Additional Information: Born in Hankow, China on 17 Dec 1918. Son of Sidney and Edith French; husband of Daphne French, of Southwell, Nottinghamshire.
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Basil French
    Given Initials: B B
    Rank: Captain
    Death Date: 21 Apr 1944
    Number: 160537
    Birth Place: China
    Residence: London SW
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Burma
    Regiment at Death: East Surrey Regiment (Attached to Black Watch)
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    Global, Find A Grave Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations, 1300s-Current
    Name: Captain Basil Bickerstaff French
    Death Date: 21 Apr 1944
    Cemetery: Kohima War Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place: Kohima, Nagaland, India
    Has Bio?: N
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18858845

    Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls, 1914-1947
    Name: Basil Bickerstaff French
    Event Date: 15 Jan 1940
    Regiment Number: 6145253
    Regiment: East Surrey
    40816_1831101883_1530-00015.jpg

    TD
     
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  3. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    deleted
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  4. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Casualty Lists:

    French_01.jpg

    French_02.jpg

    French_03.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Is the correction to 8/5/44 or 21/4/44 ? Also does the rank W/Lt pertain to him and what is a W/Lt sorry for being a bit thick.
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It would seem he started life as an NCO [as per the East Surrey upload in post 2] then progressd to what would be I guess is a 2nd Lt before being given a temporary or battlefield promotion to W/Lt - i.e. under observation to see how good/bad he was - following this I believe the next stage was would be to drop the W/ and make him a Lt followed by T/Capt followed by Capt

    W/Lt I believe and if memory sereves means War Substantive/Lt
    Military rank - Wikipedia
    Substantive or permanent: the fully paid and confirmed rank, with eligibility for the corresponding pension/benefits
    Retired or retained: usually granted to those officers of the rank of lieutenant in the Navy, or captain in the Army, or above, and enlisted, who have reached the end of their service obligation and have not been dishonorably discharged or dismissed from the service. A retired rank is usually kept for life, if the officer so concerned wishes. In the Commonwealth of Nations, such an officer will also hold the style of Esquire, if they do not hold a higher title.
    Veterans rank is different in each country. Members of the United States military maintain their highest rank after discharge or retirement. 10 U.S. Code § 772(e) states: A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of the highest grade held by him during that war. After a war, regular serving members of the military holding war substantive or temporary rank often revert to their former, substantive rank and all others often end their service. However, the holder may be granted permission to permanently retain the rank they held when the conflict ended.
    Temporary: usually granted for a specific task or mission. The holder holds the rank while occupying that position. Despite the name, temporary rank may be held for a considerable period of time, perhaps even years. In wartime, temporary ranks are often common. In the United Kingdom, the rank of brigadier was long considered a temporary rank; while its holder was addressed as "brigadier," he would retain the substantive rank of colonel or lieutenant-colonel if not selected for promotion to general officer rank. Sub-classes of temporary rank (from highest to lowest) include:
    Brevet: an honorary promoted rank, without the full official authority or pay appropriate to the rank.
    War substantive: a temporarily confirmed rank only held for the duration of that war, though war substantive rank may be treated as substantive when considering the holder's eligibility for subsequent promotions and appointments.
    Acting is where the holder assumes the pay and allowances appropriate to the acting rank, but a higher commanding officer may revert the holder to previous rank held. This is normally for a short period of time while the permanent occupant of the office is absent. During wartime, acting ranks are frequently held on an emergency basis, while peacetime holders of acting ranks are often those who must hold their permanent rank for a sufficient period before being confirmed in their new higher rank.
    Local or theater: a form of temporary rank restricted to a specific location instead of a specific duty.

    This is what I think happened and is not based on any actual experiences of gaining or losing ranks in the military, I cannot explain why he was initially listed a Capt then noted as only being W/Lt

    TD
     
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  7. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    He has the rank of Captain on his grave marker , but obviously that is what the CWGC had him down as. I'll have to do some local digging but as he was born in China , the only local connection is his wife Daphne French nee Leary who he married in Surrey in 1940. He may never have come to the area.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: Basil B French
    Gender: Male
    Marital status: Single
    Birth Date: 17 Dec 1918
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 8
    Residence Place: Wimbledon, Surrey, England
    Occupation: Seeking Work
    Schedule Number: 159
    Sub Schedule Number: 3
    Enumeration District: CNRG
    Registration district: 30-3
    Household Members:
    Name
    Sidney B French
    Ethel H French
    Basil B French
    tna_r39_1407_1407e_012.jpg


    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Basil B French
    Registration Date: Oct 1940
    [Nov 1940]
    [Dec 1940]
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration district: Surrey North Eastern
    Inferred County: Surrey
    Spouse: Daphne Leary

    TD
     
  9. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Possible left China due to the Second Sino - Japanese War , strange what this research throws up. He doesn't look a career soldier though.
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    His father

    UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
    Name: Sidney French
    Gender: Female
    Age: 50
    Birth Date: abt 1871
    Departure Date: 8 Dec 1921
    Port of Departure: London, England
    Destination Port: Shanghai, China
    Ship Name: Nagoya

    UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
    Name: Sidney French
    Arrival Age: 50
    Birth Date: abt 1872
    Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
    Arrival Date: 27 May 1922
    Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
    Ship Name: Montrose
    Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific Line
    Official Number: 145919

    UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
    Name: Sidney Bickerstaff French
    Arrival Age: 49
    Birth Date: abt 1872
    Port of Departure: Yokohama, Japan
    Arrival Date: 11 Jun 1921
    Port of Arrival: London, England
    Ports of Voyage: Shanghai; Hong Kong; Singapore; Port Swettenham; Penang
    Ship Name: Pyrrhus
    Shipping Line: Ocean Steamship Company Ltd
    Official Number: 137410

    It is difficult to find Basil as he is probably noted as Master B or some such, but it would appear he was probably UK based from mid to late 1921 living with his parents - his father being an accountant

    TD
     
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  11. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Killed fighting around the vicinity of Kohima with the 1 Essex as a Chindit in 23rd Brigade:

    P4270633 copy.JPG
     
  12. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    So down as Captain in the diary.
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Yes, I looked through the 2 BW war diary and then went back to the CWGC and looked at the concentration reports for French, when I saw where he was first buried, it triggered my attention towards 23rd Brigade and bingo!!
     
  14. JITTER PARTY

    JITTER PARTY Well-Known Member

    Still some mystery, since 56 Coln was from 1 Essex. There were no BW in 23 Brit Bde , so whatever else he was, he wasn't attached 2 BW at the time of his death. 2 BW was in 14 Brit Bde which was in Burma at the time.
    It was perfectly normal for a WS Lt to be an Ag Capt, at least for the set period until he became a Ty Capt, and for casualty lists and CWGC records to use that rank.
     
  15. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    It is not unusual to find personnel moving around the various Chindit Brigades. It was also commonplace for junior officers to be promoted a rung or two up the ladder for the duration.
     
  16. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Thanks again every body .
     
  17. JITTER PARTY

    JITTER PARTY Well-Known Member

    Yes, but my point was that both the casualty list and the CWGC details are clearly wrong.
     
  18. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    To be honest it is surprising how often things are wrong. But everybody is fallible and once transcribed they become the new "facts" and are often copied and repeated.
     

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