Can you tell me my Grandads regiment

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by A J Mellish, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Hi
    I am trying to find out about my relatives military background and have done so with alot of sucess with help from this forum and Great War forum.

    The picture below is my Grandad. His name was wyndham gordon goodburn evans morris. He maybe originally from Wales (south I think) then moved to Lancashire/Cheshire (border changed in the 70's). He wife was alice and they had a son Wyndham James Morris. I have no paperwork what so ever on my Grandad. I have heard he was a Colour Segeant and something to do with cooking??? I have also heard he was born at Peninsula Barracks in Warrington but that would then put the Wales theory out or vice versa. This is where I start speculating on stuff that may never have been :)
    Any help most welcome

    Andy

    [​IMG]
     
  2. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Ive just found out this from TNA
    I dont understand the dates given. I thought he was born about that time?

    Medal card of Morris, Wyndham G G E
    Corps:South Lancashire Regiment
    Regiment No:6022
    Rank:Warrant Officer Class 2...
    1914-1920WO 372/14
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    That isn't him, that's why.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  4. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Back to square 1
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    What help have you had from GWF?

    I can't really see the insignia over his chevrons. It looks like there is three???

    I'm not brilliant at TNA.....Is he not listed at all on there?
     
  6. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Andy

    Service records needs to me handled with care when researching your fmaily tree as they can be wrong or misleading. Anyhow there no substitute for the more traditional methods. You need to start with Birth and death certifcates these contain a lot of useful info.

    Kev
     
  7. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Andy,

    Is it possible the photo you have is your great-grandad instead?

    The service records match the man in the photo - the capbadge is the South Lancs:

    Medals of the South Lancashire Regiment

    I can see the edge of the prince of wales feather and the sphinxs nose.

    and I believe that is a WW1 battledress (need a battledress expert here!) and it is a WO in the photo. He looks to be in his mid 30's.

    Reckon you've skipped a generation.

    Pete.
     
  8. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Andy; As has already been, quite correctly, suggested; Ye really need to follow the complete and in hand paper trail, in Genealogy. That means starting off by buying ye own Birth Certificate and ~ crazy as this may seem! ~ proving ye own Mum and Dad are who they obviously are. Then ye get ye Mum / Dads BC (which ever side, in this case, the Grandad is from).

    That tells ye His name and occupation at the time of the birth. It also gives a pretty good idea (usually) of his address.

    Working from That information, ye buy His BC. Bingo. Ye have as good as it gets on his given name and place of birth. Then ye know who ye after. Are ye aware that ye parental Marriage Certificate will usually also state each persons Fathers Occupation? Thus, ye Mum and Dads MC may well state the given Father (Ye Grandad) as " X rank in Y Regiment ". Further, reasonably solid leads.

    Aha! I suspect Pete's onto something! Here's ye man getting married!



    Name: Wyndham Gordon G E Morris Year of Registration: 1906 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Warrington County: Cheshire, Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 302


    Sounds like our boy. But, myself, I'd first want to prove that's even his name, before I started thrashing about for more on that person. And that brings us right back to the Proper procedures. Just because someone in ye family says it? Doesn't mean it's correct. Pay ye £7.00s and buy those Cert's ;)

    Need any more advice on that side of things? I'm happy to pop up the links.

    WW1 alright!


    (Sorry about the complete cock up of my original post, Andy. Ye must think me a complete ring piece! My connection's so vile it's taking me ten minutes per click to rectify my gaffs here!)
     
  9. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Andy,

    Is it possible the photo you have is your great-grandad instead?

    The service records match the man in the photo - the capbadge is the South Lancs:

    Medals of the South Lancashire Regiment

    I can see the edge of the prince of wales feather and the sphinxs nose.

    and I believe that is a WW1 battledress (need a battledress expert here!) and it is a WO in the photo. He looks to be in his mid 30's.

    Reckon you've skipped a generation.

    Pete.

    Hi Pete
    I am 100 % sure that it is my Grandad as I remember him as if it was yesterday. I think he must have passed away between 1979 and 1982. I remember the telephone call from the hospital to say he had passed away. I must have been between 8-10 years of age. I remember the game "Simon" being the in toy that year. So my estimate years are about right.

    Also, the fact that the info I found was relating to Wyndham G G E Morris, who else would have initials like that!!! :)

    Andy
     
  10. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Using 14 trial on ancestry

    Name:Wyndham Gordon G E Morris
    Year of Registration:1906
    Quarter of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec
    District:Warrington County:Cheshire, Lancashire

    But this was a marriage?????
     
  11. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Andy; As has already been, quite correctly, suggested; Ye really need to follow the complete and in hand paper trail, in Genealogy. That means starting off by buying ye own Birth Certificate and ~ crazy as this may seem! ~ proving ye own Mum and Dad are who they obviously are. Then ye get ye Mum / Dads BC (which ever side, in this case, the Grandad is from).

    That tells ye His name and occupation at the time of the birth. It also gives a pretty good idea (usually) of his address.

    Working from That information, ye buy His BC. Bingo. Ye have as good as it gets on his given name and place of birth. Then ye know who ye after. Are ye aware that ye parental Marriage Certificate will usually also state each persons Fathers Occupation? Thus, ye Mum and Dads MC may well state the given Father (Ye Grandad) as " X rank in Y Regiment ". Further, reasonably solid leads.

    Anyway, at least ye have one hell of a name to go on! :huh: Ancestry dot com suggests Cheshire as his place of birth. Look:


    Name: Wyndham Gordon G E Morris Year of Registration: 1906 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec. District: Warrington. County: Cheshire, Lancashire. Volume: 8c Page: 302

    Sounds like our boy. But, myself, I'd first want to prove that's even his name, before I started thrashing about for more on that person. And that brings us right back to the Proper procedures. Just because someone in ye family says it? Doesn't mean it's correct. Pay ye £7.00s and buy those Cert's ;)

    Need any more advice on that side of things? I'm happy to pop up the links.

    Aha! I suspect Pete's onto something! Here's ye man getting married!

    Name: Wyndham Gordon G E Morris. Year of Registration: 1906. Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec. District: Warrington. County: Cheshire, Lancashire. Volume: 8c Page: 302


    WW1 alright!

    Hi Steve

    Its a bit confussing this Geneology isnt it. I know that he is my fathers father, making him my grandfather. Like you say, time to purchase the paper trail. Not many people would have that name for sure, but I just cant get my head around the dates. I would have suggested that this was his birth date as he died around 77years of age in about 1980 ish.

    Regards

    Andy
     
  12. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Andy; Forgive me. I'm having hell with my Vodafone 3G piece of **** here, as usual! Please ignore what ye quoted me on and read my Finally edited reply, above.

    That certainly appears to be his marriage. 1906? Rule of thumb says he was about twenty at the time. Thus we look for his birth around 1885. I'll go look at another place I'm subscribed to. Just because this whole thing's addictive! :lol:
     
  13. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Of course, if he was named after his father.....

    I can only say for definite that the guy in the photo has the South Lancs badge on his FS cap, and I think he's a warrant officer.

    It may be that the battledress is ww2 vintage, I had a look at some photo's of ww1 dress and they dont seem to have such pointy collars.

    At least thats a start !

    How about a new post - can anyone date this battledress.

    Thinking about it.....if the guy in the photo had served in ww1, where are his medals?

    Visit to the south lancs museum in preston may help?

    Pete.
     
  14. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    see below
     
  15. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    I have found my nan ( Wyndhams wife )
    Name:Mary Alice Morris
    Birth Date:31 Jan 1916
    Death Registration Month/Year:Mar 1991
    Age at death (estimated):75
    Registration district:Warrington
    Inferred County:Cheshire, Lancashire

    So this would make the first Wyndham not our man unless it was my great grandad. The search goes on.

    My Grandad was based at Peninsula Barracks in warrington earlier called Orford Barracks as a colour segeant. It is now a TA center for 5/8 Kings
    There was a rumour he was born there.
     
  16. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Andy,

    It looks like your Great-grandad was a career soldier in the South Lancs.

    The photo of your grandad - I now think thats a later battledress, its the pointy collar - so it looks like he was also in the regiment, if not full time (1st Bn.) then TA (2nd Bn.).

    Strange name or not, I reckon your grandad was named after his father.

    I think you have enough to apply for your grandads service history, d-o-b and regiment, thats probably the best way ahead.

    I am putting together a website for 2nd Bn. in Burma and have a request going into the Burmastar magazine - I will ask about your grandad as well.

    Did he ever mention where he served ie India, Burma, France etc.

    Interesting research ahead.

    Regards

    Pete.
     
  17. A J Mellish

    A J Mellish Junior Member

    Andy,

    It looks like your Great-grandad was a career soldier in the South Lancs.

    The photo of your grandad - I now think thats a later battledress, its the pointy collar - so it looks like he was also in the regiment, if not full time (1st Bn.) then TA (2nd Bn.).

    Strange name or not, I reckon your grandad was named after his father.

    I think you have enough to apply for your grandads service history, d-o-b and regiment, thats probably the best way ahead.

    I am putting together a website for 2nd Bn. in Burma and have a request going into the Burmastar magazine - I will ask about your grandad as well.

    Did he ever mention where he served ie India, Burma, France etc.

    Interesting research ahead.

    Regards

    Pete.

    Hi Pete

    India rings a bell.

    Thanks for the info. I am on ancestry at the moment and have found allsorts, even a phone book entry which i can verify. Is there any way of cross referencing the info I find? I used to have a programme that would do this, but for some reason ancestry wont do this (unless im missing something)

    Andy
     
  18. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    India - either 2nd Bn. or 7th Bn.

    Keep us updated with what you find out.

    7th Bn is very poorly documented ie not at all, 2nd is only a little better!
     
  19. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    I am on ancestry at the moment and have found allsorts, even a phone book entry which i can verify. Is there any way of cross referencing the info I find?


    Andy; Take a look at this place: https://www.findmypast.com It's basically complete scans of the GRO Records. Births, Marriages and Deaths ~ plus more, but all at a pretty reasonable price. Buy a fiver of credits and sniff around?

    For ye actual Cert's? I've heard horror stories of what some places charge! Personally, I've only ever gone straight to source and pay £7.00 each at the GRO: General Register Office (GRO) - Official information on births, marriages and deaths
     
  20. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    The photo you have posted is from the Second World War; it isn't from an earlier period. I would agree that the cap badge does look to be South Lancashire Regiment but it isn't clear enough to be 100% certain. His rank in the photo is Sergeant, and he has some formation signs above it which are not clear enough to recognise.

    Can you possibly do a higher resolution scan of the area above his Sergeant stripes?

    There will be no online information available on this man; the records of the majority of those who served in WW2 are not in the public domain and certainly not online. The only way to research him is to contact the MOD, see:

    Tracing WW2 Soldiers
     

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