Hello My granddad was in North Africa and then left from Alexandria and was part of the 'D-Day Dodgers' landing at Salerno in September 1943. I came across this picture whilst researching and I am convinced that the person at front right running out of the sea is my granddad. So I'm trying to find out if this sort of ship landed at Salerno, where, when and where they came from, North Africa? And anything else I can find out about, even if anyone can recognise the regiment etc, that these chaps were or would know, based on the n ber on the boat? I don't know , any information would be fantastic. I posted a picture of an amphibious boat on here a couple of years ago, which was a picture of my other grandad on it, and I found out tons of information and that it was a weasel, and he was in India. So I'm hoping that someone will know something about this. Thanks so much for any replies Jacquelyn PS grandad was in the Lancashire fusiliers and I'm not sure if he was 8th army. H was in North Africa and Italy and Greece, he landed at Salerno and was at monte Cassino. He's 93 now and can't remember things very well, but we showed him the picture and he thought I might be him, he remembered running off a ship and getting his boots wet and running up the beach, so he didn't wade ashore or swim, and this looks like his knees!! :0).
Jacgcrofts Tricky one as this ship(sic) looks like a standard Tank Landing Craft (TLC) which also carried troops and which were used in most landings..now if this is Salerno thenONLY two british Divisions were involved which were the 46th and 56th Divisions plus some commandos - the 46th came from the 1st army from probably Bone Algeria and the 56th from -probably Alexandria and Tripoli r eve somewhere in Tunisia being an 8th Army unit..at Salerno they joined the British Xth Corps attached to the US 5th Army and fought with them through Naples to the Rapido / Garigliano Rivers NEAR Cassino but not actually Cassino as they both went off to Egypt for reinforcements to return in time for the Coriano Ridge Battles at Croce and Gemmano in September '44 - you sy that he was also at Greece which neither 46th nor 56th are there so I suspect he changed to 4th British Div somewhere along the line... Cheers
First of all: welcome to the forum! The ship is a Landing Ship, Tank, or LST. These were specially designed to land tanks and other vehicles straight onto beaches. Although most LST were American-built, many were passed to the Royal Navy. Navsource.org identifies it as HMLST 2 and confirms that the photo was taken at Salerno (though no source is given). The downside is that the Lancashire Fusiliers didn't land at Salerno. 2nd Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers did land in Sicily and later in Italy at Taranto, but neither of these were assault landings. There's clearly a bit of a mystery to solve. It's possible he could have landed there as a reinforcement - others did and they weren't too happy about it. I would recommend applying for your grandfather's service records on his behalf. There's usually a long wait for next of kin, but they seem to fast-track applications by veterans themselves. Here's the link if you're interested.
Jacgcrofts, The vessel is not a LCT (landing craft tank) but a LST (landing ship tank). These came into use somewhat after the LCTs and carried many more tanks and troops. It may be possible to id the LST from the number '2' used at Salerno but I don't have information on the Italian landings. Sure someone with the required knowledge will be able to help. See? Idler beat me to it! Hmm, slightly contradictory info on Idlers link - date of commission into RN and date of Salerno landing - not uncommon but the same picture is shown there. Great picture by the way - where did you find it?
IF I may be so bold as to offer two corrections to my initial posting and apologies for calling an LST an LCT… never did keep up with numbers and names of things - too busy making History I guess - the other being carried away by the facts of who actually Landed at Salerno and getting their feet wet etc which was of course ONLY the 46th and 56th Divs with some Commandos as I noted BUT the 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers were no where near Salerno OR for that matter Sicily as they were part of operation Torch which landed at Algiers initially in November '42 and again in March of '43 and heavily involved in the last battle for Tunis with 4th Inf Div 7thAD and 6th AD's with 21st and 25th Tbs when they went into reserve and thus missed Sicily and finally landed in Italy at Taranto thus keeping their feet dry once more…..they then participated in what is known as the 4th Battle of Cassino which is a misnomer as they were involved in Operation Diadem which by passed Cassino into the liri valley - short spell near Lago Trasemino saw them once more with 8th Army at San Martino in the Gothic Line on the left flank of 1st Canadian Div where they were involved in the initial Monty's Moonlight attack then towards November they joined 4th Indian Division in Greece where they ended the war….sorry I don't have exact dates etc but all this is from my memory..which isn't all bad as I don't really trust too many so called History books..however the war diaries for those periods will give chapter and verse while his service records will confirm his movements... Cheers…………see my article on " The battle for San Martino " for mention of 4th Div and Monty's Moonlight - BBc series below
Jacqcrofts. Extract from Wiki. '78 BR Inf Div were formed specifically for Op TORCH and landed at Algiers in 1942. Thereafter it had a prominent role in the Tunisia Campaign, gaining a formidable reputation, then through the Allied invasion of Sicily, up the length of Italy, arriving in Austria for the end of the war. Units also saw action in Greece, Palestine, and Egypt. Notable engagements include in Tunisia Longstop Hill, in Sicily the Battle of Centuripe and in Italy the assaults on the Viktor Line (Battle of Termoli), the Barbara Line and the River Sangro (Gustav Line) as well as the Battle of Monte Cassino, the Trasimene Line, the Gothic Line and Battle of the Argenta Gap.' 2 LANCS FUS were part of 11 Infantry Brigade. Regards Frank
Tom A large part of the 46th Division did eventually go to Greece. From information in the history of the 46th Division. The 139th Brigade of the 46th Division went to Greece in early December 1944. They were pulled out of the line in Italy around 28th November, with the 2/5th Leicesters and 16th Durham Light Infantry being flown from near Rome and Bari to Kalamaki Aerodrome on the 3rd and 4th of December. Their main area of operations were around Athens and Piraeus until they embarked for Patras on the 6th January. The other battalion of the 139th Brigade, the Sherwood Foresters, was flown from Italy to Salonika around the same time. They stayed there till the 8th February before being moved to Athens. The 139th Brigade were relieved at the end of January by other parts of the 46th Division, mainly the 138th Brigade. They then stayed around the outskirts of Athens resting and training. The 46th Division eventually handed over its commitments in Greece to the 23 Armoured Brigade on the 5th April before moving back to Italy, just missing the final battle for Italy, prior to the surrender of Germany's southern armies. So possible the op's grandad may have landed at Salerno with the 46th Division, but would had have to transferred from the Lancashire Fusiliers prior to this. Cheers
Didn't notice that, but I must admit when I first saw the picture I thought "American LST", probably because of the dark colour. US LST 2 also served at Salerno (according to the same source) so either one will do! The other possibility is that it's not the ship's usual pennant number, but one specific to the landing (e.g. the TLCs at Dieppe were renumbered).
Frank and Clanky of course 2nd Lancs were in 78th Div and 11th bde - BUT - note the time -9.something a.m. translated into Canadian pacific time is around 2 .am. the night before so excuses excuses etc the 46th landed up at Graz in Austria as the 6th Armoured and 78 th Div also ended up in Austria but Tito was playing games and 6th Armoured sent 4th Hussars down there and 46 th Div had to move some of their units also to keep the peace but again note the time..plus celebrating the news that my disabled grandniece had won Gold and Silver at Lyons for breaking a world record in the 100 and 200 metres……and the let down this a.m. with the terrible news that an old friend is suffering a relapse of cancer..it's yo yo world those days Cheers
Just to clarify my thoughts on this possible confusion: From Idler's Navsource link: LST-1 Class Tank Landing Ship: · Laid down, 23 June 1942, at Dravo Corp., Pittsburgh, PA. · Launched, 19 September 1942 · Commissioned USS LST-2, 9 February 1943 · During World War II USS LST-2 was assigned to the Europe-Africa-Middle East Theater and participated in the following campaigns: Europe-Africa-Middle East Campaigns Campaign and Dates Campaign and Dates North African occupation, early 1943 Salerno landings, 9 September 1943 Sicilian occupation, July 1943 Invasion of Normandy, 6 to 25 June 1944 · Decommissioned and turned over to the Royal Navy, 28 November 1944 · Royal Navy History · Commissioned into Royal Naval service, 29 November 1944, as HM LST-2 The captions for the first picture attached are: USS LST-2 underway, location unknown, circa January-June 1944. Christopher Bissonnette for his father Austin Bissonnette GM1/c USS LST-2 and for the second picture: HM LST-2 disembarking US Navy SeeBees and British troops at Salerno, 9 September 1943. Photo courtesy Christopher Bissonnette. Caption courtesy Jason Treadway. The confusion is: How can the second picture be HM LST-2 at Salerno in September 1943 when the vessel wasn't commissioned into the RN until 29th November 1944? Could just be that the caption for the second picture is incorrect and the vessel was actually US LST-2 at Salerno and later transferred to the RN. That seems to be the most likely explaination. Also why is the whole entry on Navsource titled 'LST-1 Class Tank Landing Ship'? Sorry to say I find quite a lot of confusion on some US based sites relating to landing craft of various types - perhaps understandable given the little history that remains for many of these vessels and difficulties on searching for vessels witha number but no name!
To everyone who wrote back, I should just say WOW!! I hadn't imagined there would be so much information available. Also we spoke to grandad again about this ( he is in a care home, as he's not been too well since a stoke and collapse two years ago, but he's tough and doing ok, he is not far off 94 years old! Btw we see him all the time, he has visitors every day too!) Anyway he was trying to remember about Salerno, he suffers from Alzheimer's and doesn't know what he had for breakfast but usually remembers the war and older things. He said he was at Tunis before Salerno. He joined up with the Lancashire fusiliers (take heed everyone, let all now come and see how I respect England, for you see I live in England's richest shire- he used to say this all the time!) I repeated this to him a few weeks ago and he joined in the second part and said how do you know that! Anyway, he joined LF, and was in North Africa, not sure where but not at al Alamein but he was at Tobruk. Then he left from Tunis to go to Salerno. I think he had been to Egypt too. He was attached to radios different groups, but he said he was 1st army leaving Africa he landed on the beaches at Salerno, I remember him talking about the Hampshires but whether he went ashore with them I don't know, and was later under mark Clark and at monte Cassino. He said he was later with the 8th army. I go'ing to ask him if we can get his army records as someone suggested. He was in Greece at some point and has talked about Athens. When I was younger we all went travelling around Italy's nd Greece, in the 1970s and he showed us various places he'd been, in Rome and Athens and I was only about ten I remember some of what he said. I will tell hm what's I've found out, he really is a tough chap and a fantastic grandad and I thank you very much for all this info. Jacq
Just so you know, this is grandad this summer, out for the sea air, I took the pic and the other person is my mum (his daughter). Thought you might like to see him. I'm convinced the picture at Salerno is him, but I'd have to dig out photos from when he was in the army as obviously he looked different 70 years ago! Thanks very much again Jacquelyn
The 128th BR Infantry Brigade was made up of the 1/4th, 2nd & 5th Hampshire Battalions and landed at Salerno as part of the 46th Division. I don't think they were involved in the fighting at the actual abbey & town at Monte Cassino, but were involved in the river crossings in the vacinity and in sectors along the 'Cassino front'. The Hampshires (of the 128th Inf Brigade) eventually ended up in Greece in January 1945 (the 2nd & 5th battalions mid January, and the 1/4th Battalion following on at the end of January). One observation which may throw a spanner in works with regard to the photo being your grandad (if he was with the Hampshires during the Salerno Landings), is that the Hampshires (& 128th Inf Brigade) were some of the first troops of 46th Division ashore. Considering the troops started landing just after 3am, i'm not sure the light conditions & general situation would have been favourable for photography. Also IMO, the staging leading from the craft would indicate that the photo was taken some time after the initial assaults, when the beach-head was more established (possibly late on on the first day or subsequent days).
128 Inf Bde were involved at Cassino but only on 19 Jan 44 as the assaulting force for a 46 BR Inf Div river crossing of the Garigliano to capture the village of Sant Ambrogio. This little village dominated the left flank of the planned 36 US Inf Div attack planned for 20 Jan 44. The attack failed. 46 BR Inf Div remained in the Garigliano area for some time afterwards but were not involved in the Second, Third or Fourth Battles of Monte Cassino. 2/4 Hampshires were part of 28 Inf Bde which were part of 4 BR Inf Div and were part of the Fourth Battle. Regards FdeP
I suspect that this photo would be found in the IWM. A number of photographers were on the beachhead on the 9th - Lt Gade, Sgt Wackett, Sgt Gee, to name three. I only found a couple digitised on their website and this one was not one of them.
