Can anyone give me any information? - Manchester Regt. PoW.

My 2nd Cousin Francis Pemberton 3529435, died in Thailand in june 2942, he was in the 1st Battalion Manchester regiment. His ashes were intered at Kanchanaburi war cemetary. He died of beriberi

Could anyone tell me

1. The camp/camps he would have been based at
2, Why were the 1st battalion in thailand?
3. Any other information

thank you so much

 

P Database



My late uncle died 05/06/43 - Sergeant Robert, Easton Duthie. Gordon Highlanders died from dysentery -deaths from dysentery -the British medical officers ordered cremation to reduce reinfections later. Kanchanaburi War Cemetery

 

1 Manchester was in Singapore when it fell. All bar 24 officers and men who were evacuated and on HMS Dragonfly when she was sunk by Japanese aircraft - only 4 of this contingent survived, were killed or captured by the Japanese.

Will post up figures/details from Manchester Regiments history by Bell tomorrow.

 

where were the 1st battalion kept as in which prisoner of war camp were they at?

 

Hi GP,

Here is his record on the Cofepow website:

Record Details

Surname: PEMBERTON
First Name(s): Frank
Rank: Pte.
Service No: 3529435
Service: A
Date of Capture: 15/02/1942

As Swiper says captured at the fall of Singapore, which is confirmed by his date of capture above.

Camps wise, you may be able to pick up his Japanese index card, which to some extent is a record of his POW journey. These are held at the National Archives in the WO345 series of files. Frank's card will be in box 40, covering the surnames PE.....

So your reference would be WO345/40. This card may well tell you which camps he served in.

Steve

 

GP,

I was thinking that from your original post that he did not last long as a POW.
15/02/42 to 29/06/42.

But then I looked up his CWGC details, and these state his date of death as 23/06/1943.

Casualty Details

Name: PEMBERTON, FRANCIS
Initials: F
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 21
Date of Death: 23/06/1943
Service No: 3529435
Additional information: Son of Frank and Nellie Pemberton, of Glossop, Derbyshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sp. Mem. 9. M. 4.
Cemetery: KANCHANABURI WAR CEMETERY

Steve

 

yes sorry it was 1943

 

Would he have been taken to thailand to work on the burma railway

 

Would he have been taken to thailand to work on the burma railway


Hi GP,

I would say almost certainly yes, he would have worked on the railway. Have you looked at the FEPOW community website? They have a members discussion forum too and possess a wealth of knowledge on these topics.

Here is the link:

Fepow Community

 

That Brave chap Arthur Lane , served in the manchesters and POW survivor who wrote a book too , He could shed some light on it probably ,
Hope he's still with us ?

 

My 2nd Cousin Francis Pemberton 3529435, died in Thailand in june 2942, he was in the 1st Battalion Manchester regiment. His ashes were intered at Kanchanaburi war cemetary. He died of beriberi

Could anyone tell me

1. The camp/camps he would have been based at
2, Why were the 1st battalion in thailand?
3. Any other information

thank you so much

As from 22nd April 2011 no fewer than 1,571 new files were released by the Ministry of Defence to The National Archives containing information ranging over a large geographical area and military units about missing men, in the series WO361.

A handful of new files relate to the 1st Battalion of the Manchester Regiment.

I am interested in members of this Battalion who travelled from Changi POW camp to Thailand in October of 1942, so looked at one of the recently released files, WO361/2118.

I also looked for Private F.Pemberton, since reading your post. The information given in a Nominal Roll prepared in Changi during the war is just two lines including some deletions, which need some interpretation.

What it states is : "3529435 Pte Pemberton ( OVL / F 30/4/43 ) F. M. - 47, Queen St, Glossop, Derbyshire D ( CHA )".

The letters in my brackets means that they have been deleted, when new information is added.

My interpretation of this line is that Pte Pemberton was part of "F" Force which consisted of some 7,000 British and Australian POWs who travelled in 13 parties of men from Changi on the Island of Singapore to Bam Pong in Thailand between April 18th and April 30th, 1943, at the rate of about 600 men per day. Your relative began his journey on 30th April, 1943. The "D" means that he has died. "OVL" is short for a journey made "overland", as opposed to "ovs" which is shorthand for "overseas", meaning on board a ship.

The page ( Sheet 26 ) contains one line of information in type with handwritten additions for 26 different individuals.

The document was prepared by the Bureau of Record and Enquiry, an organisation that was established by British officers to ensure that adequate records of POWs were kept. The "BRE" were handicapped in that they were based in Changi, on the Island of Singapore, but were dealing with servicemen's records relating to personnel who could be thousands of miles away. For more information see " The Story of Changi" by David Nelson, published in 1974 by Changi Publication Co., ISBN 0 9503243-0-2. The library at the National Archives does not possess a copy, which is a shame, because a large number of the lists which Captain David Nelson and his colleagues maintained diligently have now been released in the series WO361. Indeed, where the National Archives' listing refers to a "former reference" this is sometimes the file number created by the BRE. This book explains how the lists were prepared and the fact that copies had to be hidden from the Japanese.

On the reverse of the sheet it states in handwriting:

" 3529435 Pte Pemberton Died Cholera 23/6/43 at CHANGARAYA, Grave - Thailand."

Changaraya is in the region of 300 kilometres from Bam Pong. The party would have gone by train from Singapore to Bam Pong and then marched to Changaraya.

Although Changaraya is far distant from Singapore, "F" Force was not brought under the control of the Thailand prisoner of war administration but remained under the original Singapore administration. This made life more difficult for the members of "F" Force. This "force" suffered huge losses, even compared with other units working on the Burma/Siam railway.

If you search for Changaraya you will find information on websites dealing with Far East Prisoners of War and an explanation as why Pte Pemberton's ashes were interred at Kanchanaburi, which is back towards Bam Pong.

Other men from 1 Bn Manchester Regiment managed to survive and returned to Changi in December of 1943, after completion of the Burma/Siam Railway.

A very full report is available to read online concerning "F" Force on the National Australian Archives. This is to be found at " Item Barcode 3073884". To get to this perform a "record search as a guest" using the "advanced search" option. Half way down the search form enter the barcode number. The link to the digital copy appears in the top right hand corner.

Other files at the British National Archive may contain more, or even different, information, but I have not looked at these.

The POW card referred to should give details as to the cause of death.

Good luck with your further researches.

 

Some or all of these files may have some ansers in them for you. They are available to view and copy at the National Archives:

WO 361/224 Malaya: Manchester Regiment; missing personnel

WO 361/1122 Far East: Thailand; 1st Manchester Regiment; list of deaths

WO 361/1172 Far East: 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment; nominal roll

WO 361/1649 Far East: Singapore and Thailand; statement by Quartermaster Sergeant E W Shepherd, Manchester Regiment

WO 361/2118 Prisoners of war, Far East: 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment; nominal roll

WO 361/1278 Far East: Singapore Fortress Signals and Manchester Regiment personnel

Welcome to the forum.

 

Well GP,

Some great work there by papiermache and some good reference points from Drew.

A contact of mine was delving into the Manchester's and their time as POW's in Singapore. I will get back in touch with him and see where he got to with that work.

 

I have read about the camp and it says it was a 108 kilo camp what does this mean?

 

Some or all of these files may have some ansers in them for you. They are available to view and copy at the National Archives:

WO 361/224 Malaya: Manchester Regiment; missing personnel

WO 361/1122 Far East: Thailand; 1st Manchester Regiment; list of deaths

WO 361/1172 Far East: 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment; nominal roll

WO 361/1649 Far East: Singapore and Thailand; statement by Quartermaster Sergeant E W Shepherd, Manchester Regiment

WO 361/2118 Prisoners of war, Far East: 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment; nominal roll

WO 361/1278 Far East: Singapore Fortress Signals and Manchester Regiment personnel

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you, Drew, and thank you for the greeting.

I found WO361/2118 was one of the Bureau of Record and Enquiry files, with the Changi created former reference of "47".

The former references for the other files as given in the National Archives Catalogue are:

WO361/224 former reference M353.
WO361/ 1122 former reference SS/330/141/181
WO361/1172 former reference SS/330/141/237
WO361/1278 former reference SS/330/141/343
WO361/1649 former reference SS/330/141/717

By subtracting the file numbers from each other the conclusion I reach is that the Ministry of Defence have not released a few files.

My long experience at Kew in other areas outside of War Office files is that it would be helpful to get the full file list as used in Whitehall, but we are not going to see one.

 

I have read about the camp and it says it was a 108 kilo camp what does this mean?

Giddypig: it would help if you could indicate which "camp" you are referring to, or at least tell us where you read this piece of news. I did not refer to "108" in my post about your relative.

"108" kilometres from Bam Pong is the distance that is given to a camp given various names sometimes referred to as "Arhill". POWs usually called this "Arrow Hill". You might have been reading about this camp. Perhaps you should ask whoever "it" is for an explanation.

There are a number of different languages and regional variations in Burma and Thailand, some of them unwritten. The Japanese had their own versions of the names of POW camps.

The method of defining a camp by its distance from the "end of the line" only works if the same reference point is used.

Very often the reference point is not mentioned: this means that confusion arises. It is very annoying, but really rather trivial, contextually speaking.

 

thank you you guys have been so helpful... i bought the book by arthur lane it looks really good. I read more about the f force i cant believe what my cousin went through.

 

thank you you guys have been so helpful... i bought the book by arthur lane it looks really good. I read more about the f force i cant believe what my cousin went through.

Thank you, I am pleased that you have found some insights into the history of your family, tragic though it is, with one ancestor dying of tuberculosis, and the other of cholera. Tuberculosis was soon to become treatable with antibiotics. It was possible to survive cholera, given proper medical treatment.

Are you inspired to take up a career in medicine ?

 

I too have a relative in 1st Bn, Manchester Regiment who died in captivity:

3529515 Pte Frank Wadsworth Hewkin
Born Fleetwood, 1916, son of Harry Hewkin (b.Oldham) and Hilda (nee Wadsworth).
Unmarried.
Died: 12-6-1943.
Buried: Kanchanaburi War Cemetery, Thailand.

According to Arthur Lane (who is indeed still around):

"Frank Wadsworth Hewkin was one of those who joined the battalion in Palestine Late September 1939, I can’t remember anything of a special nature. He probably died in Kule camp which was abandoned in August before the railway was completed".

There are people on the Manchester Regiment website forum (The Manchester Regiment Group Forum - Index) who have many records of the time, plus contact with Arthur. I would highly recommend a visit.