Hello guys, Im in contact with a British ww2 tank veteran and he recalls that his tank was knocked out after Bayeux by a German Tiger Tank. Im currently searching to see where his tank may of been knocked out. Im thinking maybe during Operation Pomegranate as the 102nd SS Heavy Panzer Battalion was in the area with Tiger tanks. Can someone confirm is this piece of text from Wikipedia is correct please. Tiger availability in the 102nd schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung was 19 on 14 July, on 15 July was 19 and on 20 July had fallen to 17 operational Tigers. Thanks for any help, Ben
Kyle, He is of the 33rd Armoured Brigade, and he took part in Operations Charnwood, Pomegranate and Totalize, aswell as other small skirmeshes such as Le Mesnil Patry. He also landed on Gold beach on D-Day. Thanks Ben
Specific regiment would help us further; if 33rd Armoured Brigade it would be 1/Northants Yeomanry, 144 Regt RAC (formerly 8th East Lancs) or 148 Regt RAC (formerly 9th Loyals). From context my guess would be 1/Northants Yeo.
Thanks Ben, were 148 RAC part of these ? If so they had an action on the 10th of July near the Colombelles factory (Caen) where they lost nine of their ten Shermans to Pz IVs and Tigers? I think they were in support of 5th Black Watch (unsure) There was a story regarding a Sherman hitting a Tiger with six rounds but only managed to stop it firing? Possibility? Kyle
Thank you for your replies. I have asked for the Regiment in my latest letter. Kyle, that is a really interesting point you made. It is hard to trace where exactly the 33rd fought because it was an independent Brigade so its Regiments could be detached to fight elsewhere. It is most certainly a possibility as he only stated that the engagement happened after Bayeux. I am hoping he will share more information with me, but I believe he finds it difficult to talk about because two of his friends were killed during the engagement. I have a picture with myself with the veteran, and after looking at it when I got home I noticed on his blazer was a Royal Tank Regiment badge. The 144th RAC was later named in 1945 the 4th Royal Tank Regiment, so I dont know whether it is related to his Regiment or not. Thanks, you guys are being of much help! Ben
Just a little more about the engagement at Colombelles Unknown to the British the Schwere Panzer Abeitlung 503 with 13 operational Tigers plus a few Panzer IVs led by Hauptmann Schreff was in reserve in the forest of Canteloup. Colombelles was south of St Honorine. The factory’s high chimneys dominated the battlefield which enabled the German observers to see all Allied troop movements to the north. If its the 144th there`s an account here of the Normandy battles but no mention of Tigers? http://moore-familytree.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/Moore-Sidney-144th-RAC.htm Northamptonshire Yeomanry, B Sqn, 144 Regiment Royal Armoured Corps and the 27th Canadian Armoured Regiment (The Sherbrooke Fusiliers) in the area around St. Aignan-de-Cramesnil were responsible (one of many to claim responsibility I think) for killing Wittmanns Tiger (and him) weren't they? Kyle
Kyle, Thank you for all the information. Yeah, the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry claim they killed Wittmann and the Sherbrooke Fusilliers also do. Sorry, I cant say yes or no to which Regiment he was in. At the minute it is just a guessing game, but hopefully in my next letter he mentions it. Thanks, Ben
A general word of caution regarding reports of 'Tiger' encounters in NW Europe, especially during the first part of the campaign. Just like many Germans anti-tank guns were labeled "88s" regardless of their actual calibre, many PzKpfw IV with turret Schürzen were mistaken called Tigers because of their similar silhouettes from afar. If one were to sum up all the different Tigers reportedly sighted in Normandy, the result would probably far exceed the total number of Tigers ever produced... Michel
144 Regt RAC and 1 NY each lost a tank 'to a Tiger' on 13 June 1944 in the Bayeux area. They were the Corps Commander's (Lt Gen Bucknall) escort when he went forward during the Villers-Bocage escapade. After delivering him, they took the wrong route back and were KO'd by a Tiger according to the contemporary reports. According to 7 Armd Div's IO, it was a Panther when he visited it 'above the Aure' after it was subsequently KO'd. It would most likely have been a Panzer Lehr vehicle at that place and time - you'd have thought an IO would have checked that... Pure speculation, of course, at this stage given the sparse information, but this incident is what springs to mind with the information about landing on D-Day, a Tiger, after Bayeux and 33 Armd Bde. Both tank commanders were amongst the killed: Lt 008 HASKARD, JD 295422 13/06/1944 1 Northants Yeo Hottot 33 Armd Bde Tpr 020 SHELLAM, W 7959824 13/06/1944 1 Northants Yeo Hottot 33 Armd Bde L/Cpl 004 COATES, D 3387039 13/06/1944 144 Regt RAC Hottot 33 Armd Bde 2Lt 013 KIRBY, BC 311836 13/06/1944 144 Regt RAC Hottot 33 Armd Bde Hottot is their final resting place but the new concentration data has them all interred at La Senaudiere before that. Haskard and Shellam's fates are mentioned in the 1 NY war diary and confirms their attachment to 30 Corps. Apart from dropping names, a more subtle way to rule this out is to ask if he was posted to R Sqn 144 RAC (Reserve Sqn, I'm guessing) under 262 Forward Delivery Squadron before D-Day - this is where Kirby goes according to the 144 Regt RAC WD. At least it's an interesting story, even if it turns out to be irrelevant...
Hi, Extracted from the 1.N/Y War Diary :- 15th June – Landed at Le Hamel and travelled to south of Bayeaux. 16th June- Brigade came under 7th Armoured Div. Lt.Haskcard and Tpr Shellam who had been loaned to 30th Corps Cmdr were killed in taking Corps Cmdr towards Tilly-S-Seulles Hope this helps Ken.
Cited in part: You need to read: 'Why did 51st Highland Division Fail? A case-study in command and combat effectiveness' by Anthony King, which discusses the attack on Colombelles. Via: Why did 51st Highland Division Fail? A case-study in command and combat effectiveness | British Journal for Military History There was no mention of such German armour being there in my quick read.
Hello Davidbfpo, Sorry your post needs directing to Ben (Sliben) the original poster in this thread, I was happy to search for the relevant links I`m not vouching for the validity of any of the content . Kyle
