Camp 020R Huntercombe

Discussion in 'UK PoW Camps' started by TomJonas, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. TomJonas

    TomJonas Member

    During the war MI5 had a prison at Huntercombe in Nuffield in Oxfordshire - Camp 020R. Enemy agents and finished double agents were interned there.
    I have never seen any documentation about the Camp 020R.
    Is there anyone who know if there is anything written about it or who know something about it?
     
  2. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    There appears to be plenty of information at KEW if you can visit.

    KV 2/1438 through to 1445 and KV 4/103 ==KV 4/369

    Brian
     
    dbf likes this.
  3. TomJonas

    TomJonas Member

    Files KV 4/102 and 103 are mostly about rules for Camp 020R. The other do not concern Huntercombe camp 020R at all. There were 500 staff employed and someone ought to have written something in their memoirs.
     
  4. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

  5. TomJonas

    TomJonas Member

    Thankyou Smudger Jnr!
    The reason I made this question is because we have written a book about the first German agent dropped by parachute in England on Sept 6th 1940. He was a Swede by the name Gosta Caroli and he was soon caught and enrolled as a double agent under the covername SUMMER. Unfortunately, he made an escape attempt in January 1941 and was thereafter finished as an double agent. After that he was locked up in Camp 020R. For 4½ years before he went back to Sweden inAugust 1945.
    There is a big gap in the story of these 4½ years. We have found absolutely nothing about that time!
    And of course we have all the sources mentioned, National Archive files, The excellent book about Camp 020 and so on.
    But no story of Camp 020R i Huntercombe.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  7. TomJonas

    TomJonas Member

    Thankyou Drew!
    Yes, After the Battle is an excellent magazine and No 11 is full of stories of the German agents, really recommended if you are interested in this subject.
    But! We have written a whole chapter about agents arriving in Britain 1940. And After the Battle is a valuable source.
    No, there must be eye-witnesses or someone who knew someone who knew someone who worked at Camp 020R in Huntercombe. Or some local historian who has written his biography in some local pamphlett. That is what we are looking for (I have a coauthor)
    And if my English seems pompous, it is because I am a Swede, and it is the Queens English we learn at school. (I have no idea why the text suddenly is cursive??)
     
  8. Hamcommoner

    Hamcommoner New Member

    My father was a Sgt in the East Surreys. He served at both camp 020 and camp 020r.
    In order to avoid guards becoming familiar with prisoners they were rotated every two weeks between Ham and Huntercombe.
    Several times he escorted people to the Tower of London to be executed. I was surprised to learn that they travelled on the London Underground !
    My father played in the Football team at Latchmere House and I have a picture of the team taken at their field in the grounds.
    My mother, who lived in Ham, would take my brother in his pram, and along with other wives watch the football. She recounted that Col Stephens always made a point of coming over to chat and look in to see how my brother was progressing.
    My father seems to had a very nice war as neither Ham Common or Huntercombe were exactly unattractive places to be stationed. At 020r they were well supplied with diary produce from Lord Nuffield who frequently came to see them for a chat.
    My father described travelling out with several prisoners to Oxfordshire etc, where in some isolated place, they set up their transmitter and broadcast to Germany. Although not allowed too close these trips did appear to coincide with V1 rocket attacks on London.
    One night a car pulled in at the barrier and my father, as was procedure, shone his torch into the back of the car. An officer in the car shouted "put out the bloody light". My father was looking into the face of Hess. Not sure at which camp this occurred.
     
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  9. pete mackean

    pete mackean New Member

    some interesting comments chaps
    i am no expert, with any background as such regarding Camp 020R, but i have been researching my own grandfather 'Charles John 'Mac' MacKean', who it seems after my dissecting of his military record was part of the MI5 team posted to Camp 020 Latchmere House (recently restored 2019) and Camp 020R reserve camp at Huntercombe, Nuffield, he was then sent later to Diest, Belgium and onto Bad Nenndorf, Germany post war where much controversy came over aspects of British torture and bad treatment, so i try to add my little bit of colour with some images i am still researching

    from his records i gather he had taken 'Wireless Telegraphy' training, so not sure if he did any Interrogation, perhaps stood in from time to time taking notes as was common, but possibly was involved with Telegraphy perhaps sending the well known clandestine double cross messages to the Nazis, although i gather due to radio triangulation positioning, transmitting was not done from Latchmere or Huntercombe premises, a safe house was used in Hendon for this activity for both Garbo and Zigzag agents, but to think dear old Mac may have helped deceive the Hun makes me proud, what ever he did, big or small, it's still incredible when you read the stories and conjours up many images

    i have read a handful of books, The London Cage, Camp 020, Agents GARBO and ZIGZAG and there are more to come, but every time i come across a location or new name, i'm straight into Google researching them and taking notes

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    when i first came across the name Huntercombe i first found Huntercombe Hospital in Maidenhead, Wrong!, then found another mention at Nuffield, as i looked over HMP prison on Google Maps, i got that slightly odd feeling, (is Mac looking over my shoulder) at last i'm on the right track, most of what i had been reading referred to Camps by number as this was how they were known in military circles at the time, not by address

    [​IMG]

    i noticed off the north west corner of the prison complex the rather nice large house (now a care home), which as was common place might just be the kind to commandeer in times of need, so looking at images on Google, up pops an image of the conservatory with distinctive features, windows, brickwork, columns etc, i have since asked for updated images and sure enough i am on the right track, the building was mostly used as accommodation and private offices and kept well away from the main prison

    first image from Mac
    Mac is seen sat left on step
    standing second from left (with pipe) is Assistant Commandant Lieutenant Colonel George Frederick Sampson
    he was Tin Eye Stephens No 2 Interrogator

    [​IMG]

    as yet i don't know anyone else, unless you anyone here can assist ??
    and here's a recent image of same location

    [​IMG]

    second image from Mac
    Mac seen chilling seated on right

    [​IMG]

    third image from Mac
    this may interest you Hamcommoner, seated in the garden, (we think the wall matches one that is now gone) seen are various sergeants from the prison with a couple of officers, the rather young handsome fella second from left is Colonel Herbert Lionel Adolphus Hart, much written on him at H. L. A. Hart - Wikipedia
    do you recognize anyone here??

    [​IMG]

    this is a war time image of the west side of building, the terrace seen in centre, that garden wall is just visible to the left rear side in pic, a tad faint

    [​IMG]

    ok that's enough for now, see if i have broken this site with my images, nightmare placing them
    any questions, will see if i can answer using what i know
     
  10. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Pete, for the images, it is best to use the "Upload a File" button, which is located next to the "Post Reply" button.
    This uploads the images from your computer to the WW2talk server. The IMG tag is for including publicly accessible images already on the internet.

    Regards,

    Lee
     
  11. pete mackean

    pete mackean New Member

    i am no expert historian, with any background as such regarding Camp 020R, but i have been researching my own grandfather 'Charles John 'Mac' MacKean, (after my dissecting of his military record) it seems Mac was part of the MI5 team posted to Camp 020 Latchmere House (recently restored 2019) and Camp 020R reserve camp at Huntercombe, Nuffield, he was then sent later to Diest, Belgium and onto Bad Nenndorf, Germany post war where much controversy came over aspects of British torture and bad treatment, but of course we must bare in mind all the troubles of the period, the hard winters and now millions of displaced folk and soldiers for that matter trying to get home, i'm sure running a camp full of Nazis and trying to keep them fed etc was as bad in many ways as the running of concentration camps but without the obvious criteria

    so i try to add my little bit of colour with some images i am still researching, naming folk etc

    from his records i gather he had taken 'Wireless Telegraphy' training, so not sure if he did any Interrogation, perhaps stood in from time to time taking notes as was common, possibly was involved with Telegraphy perhaps sending the well known clandestine double cross messages to the Nazis, although i gather due to radio triangulation positioning, transmitting was not done from Latchmere or probably Huntercombe premises, a safe house was used in Hendon for this activity for both Garbo and Zigzag agents as mentioned in their books, but to think dear old Mac may have helped deceive the Hun makes me proud, what ever he did, big or small, it's still incredible when you read the stories and conjours up many images

    i have read a handful of books, The London Cage, Camp 020, Agents GARBO and ZIGZAG, Operation FORTITUDE and there are more to come, but every time i come across a location or new name, i'm straight into Google researching them and taking notes

    huntercombe hall 2.jpg
    when i first came across the name Huntercombe (seen above) i first found Huntercombe Hospital in Maidenhead, Wrong One!, then found another mention at Nuffield, as i looked over HMP prison on Google Maps, i got that slightly odd tingly feeling, (was Mac watching over my shoulder) at last i'm on the right track, most of what i had been reading referred to Camps by number as this was how they were known in military circles at the time, not by address, must have been fun to locate or describe to taxi drivers

    Huntercombe Google.jpg
    i noticed off the north west corner of the prison complex the rather nice large house (now a care home), which as was common place might just be the kind to commandeer in times of need, so looking at images on Google, up pops an image of the conservatory with distinctive features, windows, brickwork, columns etc, i have since asked for updated images and sure enough i am on the right track, the building was mostly used as accommodation and private offices and kept well away from the main prison

    first image from Mac
    Mac is seen sat left on step
    standing second from left (with pipe) is Assistant Commandant Lieutenant Colonel George Frederick Sampson
    he was Tin Eye Stephens No 2 Interrogator

    MAC0217 mac mackean sat left.jpg
    as yet i don't know anyone else, unless anyone here in web land can assist ??
    and here's a recent image of same location, much loved by the looks

    IMG_20200708_205444 - Copy.jpg
    second image from Mac
    Mac seen chilling seated on right

    MAC0223 mac mackean sat right.jpg
    third image from Mac
    this may interest you Hamcommoner, seated in the garden, (we think the wall matches one that is now gone) seen are various sergeants from the prison with a couple of officers, the rather young handsome fella second from left is Colonel Herbert Lionel Adolphus Hart, much written on him at H. L. A. Hart - Wikipedia
    benches appear to match from other images, and yes these are the only ones we have
    do you recognize anyone here??

    Mac sergent major back laft - Copy.jpg
    this is a war time image of the west side of building, the terrace seen in centre, that garden wall is just visible to the left rear side in pic, a tad faint

    Huntercombe_Place_WWII-6.jpg

    ok that's enough for now
    any questions, will see if i can answer using what i know


    YEAH i did it, i knew i'd be better at rocket science, everything worked eventually after i swore a lot and punched my laptop
    perhaps you can delete previous entries for me, happy days
    pete
     
  12. pete mackean

    pete mackean New Member

    Hey that man (HAMCOMMONER) - have you yet seen my response - was there anyone you recognised in the second to last photo?
     
  13. pete mackean

    pete mackean New Member

    so further to my story and research into my Grandfather mentioned above Captain Charles John 'Mac' MacKean i have received today some confirmation from MI5 who ran the 020R Camp at Huntercombe

    it now seems that 'Mac' was not directly involved or employed by MI5 or involved in any MI5 matters but was seconded by MI5 to run either Secretarial and Administrative Staff as Security Commander at 020 and 020R Camps and later in Diest Belgium and Camp 74 CSDIC WEA at Bad Nenndorf

    and my best guess of the second to last image above of the group of sergeants etc sat on bench in garden were probably under grandads charge

    since i mention Diest and Bad Nenndorf i thought it be nice to add some extra images of him at these locations

    first image: Mac took entering Diest, obviously since the towns name is clearly written over the arch, but its location is less known and took some time to locate on Google maps, its actually an entrance south of the airfield at Diest entering the north of the town, i don't know as yet if the small Fort Leopold or the Main Citadel in the town centre were used as a prison or staff headquarters before moving on to Bad Nenndorf - this series of arches is at the Schaffense Poort Diest crossing a river and had a railway above which formed part of the towns fortification in times gone by

    Mac Diest Prison Belgium - Copy.jpg

    and looks something like this today

    diest.png

    next up is Mac outside main entrance to Bad Nenndorf Camp 74 CSDIC WEA which as some may know as the Combined Services Detailed Interrogation Centre Western European Area
    be nice to see a better image of the sign post but little to Photoshop without loss n definition, the image has become a little worse for ware with the yellowing from developing

    Mac  - Copy.jpg

    Evidence of the snow still on ground in both previous and this next image, which proves the harsh conditions that led to many issues complained about at Bad Nenndorf, lack of coal for heating, water supplies had frozen below ground and i can only imagine the hardship for resourcing food supplies for low priority Nazi prisoners together with so many misplaced people trying to get home - if they still had one

    its fairly well reported, that overnight, fences and gates were put in place very rapidly and noisily to surround the hotel and bath house which were taken over by the British to gather up war criminals who were to be interrogated in what seemed harsh conditions and under difficult circumstances created by the Nazis themselves

    Mac belgium camp - Copy.jpg

    next an image of Mac out and about possibly checking on his security details as noted in some MI5 documents for Huntercombe

    MAC0222 mac mackean centre - Copy.jpg
    Mac out relaxing with chums, somewhere outside possibly on near by empty autobahn 2

    MAC0225 mac mackean left xxx captain mallalieu - Copy.jpg

    and we can be very sure its the autobahn since Mac seen here displaying a marker stone which we know is between Bad Nenndorf and Rodenberg

    MAC0234 mac mackean does monty pyphon - Copy.jpg

    and a couple of shots around town possibly, a little hard to say for sure, obviously things would look a tad different today, but even harder when there is no present street view of the area, wonder if i can kick Google into shape

    MAC0235 mac mackean n mallalieu - Copy.jpg
    MAC0236 mac mackean - Copy.jpg

    and here's Mac in the office no doubt doing some admin, i think here as Lieutenant or Captain

    MAC0237 mac mackean - Copy.jpg

    and a couple of general pics in his South Stafford's uniform

    MAC0252 mac mackean staffs.jpg

    this next image sent to my father Ian MacKean, who was around 4 or 5 in 1945

    MAC0254 mac makean leiftenant staffs.jpg
    MAC0255 mac makean leiftenant staffs.jpg

    i may as well add his service record in case any of you can shed further light on Mac's activities, and with a transcript of the smaller text on second page with acronyms described in full, hopefully i have most correctly identified

    Mil 5.jpg

    Mil 6.jpg
    WWI
    Enlisted as Private in RASC (Royal Army Service Corps) - 1914

    Went to France - Nov 1914

    France X? to X? Staff - 1915

    Transferred to Australian Empire Forces - March 1916

    2nd Australian Field Ambulance Workshop Unit - April 1916

    Admitted to field hospital St Omar - April 1917

    Admitted to No2 Service Hospital Birmingham - April 1917

    Discharged from Duty - June 1917

    WWII

    Joined No 6 Centre Pioneer Corps (training centre) - 31.1.41

    To No 1 Group Posted No1 Coy - 24.2.41

    To Pioneer Corps with rank of 2nd Lieutenant - 31.1.41

    Reinforcement Unit from Western? GM Wireless Telegraphy School with effect from 27.8.41

    To Report 16 (Home Defence) Bn. South Staffs Reg. Home Forces UM/3442. 22.8.41

    Posted 15 16 (Home Defence) Bn. South Staffs Reg. Service Over Seas No1 Group with effect from 27.8.41

    To Report 020 Internment Camp 5/5/42 UM P/169355 (for weeks instruct) 27.4.42 - joined 4.5.42

    To W.E.S. Recp Depot (Service Over Seas 4.5.42 on posting as below – Part 2 Orders 12.6.42)

    Posted to 020 Internment Camp 4.5.42 UM P/169355 10.6.42 (020 Camp at Latchmere House Ham Richmond)


    Ctba? No33 POW Camp on return to No 020 Alien Internment Camp with effect from 13.7.43

    Embark UK Tilbury- 30.4.45

    Attached to C.S.D.I.C. (UK) British Liberation Army for temporary duty 112/misc/4224(AG14R/2) 11.5.45 (Diest alias 1 Det CSDIC (UK)


    Posted from 020 x 020R Camps to C.S.D.I.C. (WEA) with effect from 20/9/45 PL315. 6/9/45 BAOR (020R at Huntercombe, Nuffield)


    Disembarked North Western Europe 20.7.44 Holding Establishment Unit BOAR - 24.12.45

    Posted to 54 Reinforcement Holding Unit + Service Over Seas Intelligence Officer Duty Captain

    430 HQ Control Commission for Germany with effect from 5.12.47 - 29.12.47

    From Intelligence DIV to 50 Reinforcement Holding Unit (x/4) with effect from 5.12.48 BOAR

    To relinquish his commission on account of disability 15.7.48

    and to be granted the Hon Rank of Captain for London Gazette 16.7.48
    (noted LG official British Gov publication of decorations, honors and promotions)



    Admitted to Queen Alexandra Military Hospital Millbank 29.2.48

    Discharged here from 16.3.48


    TONES RPCD with effect fom 9.2.48 (date of disembark in UK) Ex Over Seas - BAOR - medical grounds.

    Retains the rank in accordance with Army Council Instruction 1144/44 Part 2 Orders 24d - 30.4.48


    Service Over Seas of B.A.O.R. to home Establishment (sick) 70 x 2 List

    Relinquish ?? Disability with effect from 15.7.48

    Dump 199 to ????? (not sure of last part here)


    anyway i hope that concludes some parts for me, any questions please do add something to the story by all means
     
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