After much effort I’ve managed to scan a version of the map in question. I’ve had to scan eight A4 copies and then photomerge them. Worth £50 of anyone’s money, although it must be a bit easier for the BL, with a big scanner and flatter maps. This one is not perfect, as you will see, so please make allowances – it is quite creased, having spent the intervening years in an American Sgt’s map case! I have also had to shrink it to less than 2MB to post it on here, but I have included a higher resolution scan of the village in question. My favourite is the Sgt’s busy schedule written on the back of a map. If I were desperate for a one-inch map I would try NAM first, in the hope that a nice librarian would photocopy it for me at x pence per sheet. Neither the BL nor the NAM allow digital photography I’m afraid. 1/25,000 is not a new scale, it’s the best scale. Maps of Burma commonly come in four sizes; quarter-inch (1/253,440), half-inch (1/126,720), one-inch (1/63,360) and 1/25,000. The first three series provide full coverage, I believe, but the 1/25,000 were reserved for areas where fighting was anticipated, and they provide much greater detail. I hope this all helps.
Charpoy Chindit, You better believe it helps! Perfect! This will help me out when I finally get to view actual aerial photography of the area, hopefully starting next Saturday. I can guarantee you that Bamboo43 (Steve) will be thrilled. I have seen the 1:25,000's covering the Rangoon area -- extremely important to me because I was able to pinpoint the original sites where 7 of the 9 crewmen on my mother's RAF 159 Sqn Liberator were buried soon after being shot down in early '44, which made it possible for a local gentleman to conduct interviews of villagers about 10 years ago. Priceless. Thanks for all of your hard work, all accomplished quickly. The beauty of this forum, and generosity, merged into one... I'd like to say a cheque for 53 pounds is in the mail, but... The comments on the reverse of the map are also priceless. What did he mean about animals? The drinking and the bath part I understand. Cheers, Matt
Charpoy Chindit, Thank you very much for the help you have given and especially the speed at which you have provided the new information and map images. As Matt says these will prove priceless and I am indeed thrilled. The cheque should be in the post. Steve.
Could the animals be “animal transport” ie mules? The FIBIS Fibiwiki has a page “Mule Corps” http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Mule_Corps One of the links on the Fibiwiki page is the 1991 interview with Francis William Geoffrey Turner, a British officer who served as brigade animal [mules] transport officer with 111 Indian Infantry Bde during First and Second Chindit Expeditions in Burma, 1943-1944. Imperial War Museums Cheers Maureen
Hi Maureen, Thats one of the IWM interviews I think. I listened to that audio last year when the reels were available online. They are back up on the internet now, well at least they were a few months back. Well worth a listen.
Aw, nuts...on two consecutive Saturdays -- my only available free times -- I've not been able to view photo recon imagery covering LONSA, which I'd ordered in person on another Saturday (two weeks ago today). Last Saturday the fault was mine -- having not asked NARA (the Nat'l Archives) by phone during the regular work week to wheel the cart containing my two ordered and delivered cans of film (shipped from underground storage in Kansas) into a holding room so that I could view them on the next Saturday (um, last Saturday) -- when weekend NARA staff in the cartography section was down to one, with little power or knowledge. So last Saturday I wasted a drive to NARA to learn the hard way that there was no film to view -- inaccessible in another room. But on this past Wednesday, and then again on Friday, I phoned NARA and was told that my two cans of film did arrive -- he had verified seeing them -- and that he would set them aside in the correct holding area so that I could access them today. Twice he told me the film would be moved, to make a Saturday viewing possible! Fortunately I phoned before driving over to NARA, because the simple promise was not kept. No cooperation, no film to view! I have a day off on Tuesday -- so maybe I can pop on over to NARA then, when the regular staff is present (including the gentleman who twice said he'd put the film aside...). Sorry, Steve, the wait for imagery must continue! That's it...I just wanted to show my true colors and boohoo a bit... At least there IS accessible film to view and to photograph for free. Cheers, Matt (still pouting)
Attached are Frame 47 of a photo recon over LONSA dated 2 Dec 1944, and a small bit of Frame 46, same date, and centered on LONSA. I can clearly see at least three bashas at LONSA -- just a tiny spot that gets its own name on the Survey of India 1:63,360 previously offered to us by Charpoy Chindit. I guarantee that my ID of LONSA correlates with the same spot on the map, and Google Earth imagery, using the 3D capabilities of the software, also helped me arrive at my decision. The area definitely is remote! In the closeup I also see KONKHAN to the northeast, not far from LONSA. KONKHAN also appears on the wartime map. From Google Earth I see something which looks like it could be a current cluster of bashas close to the wartime LONSA position, but slightly relocated. Hebridean Chindit (post #9) and lionboxer (post #16) cautioned us about settlements being moved, and this does appear to be the case. Hard to tell on the Google imagery with certainty, though... I should add that the 1:63,360 map's depiction of relief lines and drainage do not precisely match the terrain seen in the imagery. This is typical for maps of the day. Cheers, Matt
Well, that is what I call service. Thanks Matt, I can't tell you how much this means, not just to me, but all 6 of the families concerned. We started with a name and a general location and have ended up with a contemporary photograph of the village taken only 20 months after the incident itself. For something that happened in the Burma theatre, that is an incredible achievement.
It's amazing what can be achieved. This forum is getting better and better with researching this overlooked campaign. Lionboxer
Matt... how did you come by those images...? To reiterate the movement of villages, when the 111th got to Indawgyi and around the time they crossed the mountains to get to the area where they setup the Clydeside/Blackpool block they were trying to find a village location as a stopover but their maps noted three different locations in the same area so when they found one of them they were still not sure where they were...
Thanks for kind words, gents. Steve, you know as well as I that the greatest pleasure in what we do is in helping the veterans and their families, to whom our findings have the most value. Hebridean, this time I have to say I lucked out. The wartime 1:63,360 which Charpoy provided gave me the location for Lonsa, and Steve said this was the area, near the Shweli River and near some other place names which appear in records. So, knowing this location was the first step. I then used the 1:250,000 map found in the Univ of Texas map library -- and which contained the name "Lonsa" -- as a basis for drawing on clear film an overlay which would be used at the US Nat'l Archives for pinpointing which microfilmed photo recon image frames, from individual photo recon missions, might have "hit" Lonsa. I then ordered the appropriate cans of film and hoped for decent coverage, lack of clouds, decent film quality, etc. I'm a cartographer by profession, though I'm not making traditional maps any more. Still, I called upon all my past experience -- and I needed it -- to compare/contrast wartime images of the Burmese jungle to Google Earth and to the wartime map. I am 100% confident I found the cluster of bashas which was called Lonsa, even though the map's contour lines and drainage are a little inaccurate in places. That's the nature of mapmaking back then. There are quite a few visual keys that allowed me to make my determination of "the" Lonsa. Whether Steve's grandfather was actually captured here, and not another nearby clump of bashas, is a question I can't answer, but somebody used that place name in recording where men were captured, and the name could only have come off of the 1:63,360 map. I'd have to put creedence in the original identification of Lonsa. Attached are examples of the projected microfilmed flight lines for the photo recon mission which provided me with the best view of Lonsa, from 2 Dec 1944. Note the blue circled dot -- where I'd determined Lonsa was positioned on the 1:250,000. The blue line below the dot is the Shweli River. Cheers, Matt
To put things into a slightly different perspective, here are some samples of a 2 December 1944 image of LONSA and surroundings, draped atop Google Earth satellite imagery and displayed in 3D. The terrain is shown at 1:1 exaggeration, meaning, essentially, that the relationship between x, y, and z (length, width, height) are as one would view them from an overflying aircraft. The relief would pop out more dramatically had I displayed at, say, 2:1 (2X vertically exaggeration) or the maximum, 3:1 (3X vertical exaggeration). The fit of the 1944 imagery to the satellite imagery is very close, but not perfect. LONSA was along the main spine of hills snaking through the area, generally from southwest to northeast. I see no evidence of basha huts or clearings in the LONSA area as of the last date of the Google imagery -- March 2004. Note the north indicator at upper right. KONHKA is the clump of bashas just to the northeast of LONSA. Like LONSA, I see no bashas there in the satellite imagery 60 years later. Compare the 1944 positions of LONSA and KONHKA to their locations on the wartime 1:63,360 map (with its grid lines spaced 1000 yards apart), attached again for easy reference. Cheers, Matt
Brilliant work once again Matt. I have placed these with the other images, I will work on these so I can add another section on the website. The other families involved with this project are thrilled and amazed to have such a visual method of understanding the last known physical location of their loved one in Burma.
I thought I would let everyone see the culmination of this thread, with a final (sadly cropped image to make it acceptable to upload on this site) image of Lonsa village circa 1944. I've also attached the map from which the process all began. We started with a chance stumbling upon the name from one set of maps on line, to an image showing the village lay out, foot paths and out buildings. An example of this websites ability to bring together skills, knowledge and expertise possibly like no other.
How can I see these maps better, all you technical people? Blowing them up makes them illegible. Should I save them somehow? Help please!
