Trying to clarify what happened in detail around Les Andelys and Courcelles (near Gaillon) before/after the german troops crossed the Seine June 9th 1940, I search more details about move and positions of the 5th? RTR (3rd Armoured Brigade) from the River Andelle to the Seine around 8th and 9th June 1940. In particular, I try to substantiate the info I got somewhere (do not remember exactly where and how...): - that a a troop of a few tanks (headed by Snd Lt Hinton) were patrolling shortly on the left bank, in the afternoon of the 9th June, in the vicinity of the destroyed bridge at Les Andelys; - that some others (Captain OGC Carey-Thomas) were positioned at Courcelles bridge near Gaillon On both cases, I have reports from french officers mentionning presence of british tanks. Is there any document confirming this formally (like the Staff diary of the 5th RTR, WO 187/334?) and more widely describing the retreat from the Andelle to the Seine on the 8th, crossing at Courcelles during the night, patrolling on the 9th and then the departure towards the west on the 10th? Thanks Jean-Philippe
Don't visit here that often so just noticed your post. There is an older thread converning the 2/6th Bttn Duke of Wellingtons Regt on the Seine in 1940 that may be of some assistance to you (especially the very last post on page 2) It has a map of the area including:Gallion and Les Andelys http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/12969-26th-duke-of-wellingtons-seine-1940/page-2?hl=+seine%20+1940 I do have a copy of a series of articles on the development and service of the A 13 tank that appeared in the UK magazine "Military Modelling" in 2010 - 11, The articles on thie service with 1st Armoured Division (2nd and 3rd Armoured Brigades) are based on the war dairies of the units involved including 2 and 5 RTR and cover the period from 8 - 10 June 1940. If you are interested please contact me off list via PM. Cheers KRO
Yes, thank you, I do know his other discussion (and I had a chat about it with Drew and Brian). I will probably relaunch the topic because not all the sayings of Lt-Cl Llewellyn are realistic. Especially about "who was really there" the 9th of June at Les Andelys, Venables, Heudebouville and St Pierre .... I'll contact you since you seem to have fare more than what I got from such modelling magazine ("The division regrouped on 9 June, but was in a state of perpetual withdrawal in the face of heavy pressure. 2nd Brigade and the composite regiment withdrew to Le Mans, while Brigadier Crocker’s 3rd Brigade refitted as best it could in the front line") In order to tease interest in my search, here-attached an hand-written message from two french officers (Lt Guyonnet responsible for the bridge at Courcelles, Lt Heibronn same role at Les Andelys) and foreseeing british cruisers (A13?) to patrol the day after, 9th of june, around the bridges. This is one of the very few messages (the only one in my search) which is both in french (upper corner, not perfectly visible) and in english. From the writing, the message was written by Lt Heilbronn (who was probably the only one to speak english) and since he died the day after at his artillery position at Port-Morin, this is probably his last message. I have some other reports either by Lt Guyonnet at Courcelles, either by an artillery officer at Les Andelys mentionning those tanks the 9th June. Basically, I am trying to know exactly, who, which types and how many (our basic business....) Jean-Philippe
Jean-Philippe - I have not forgotten, just busy. I always answer Q's posted in the 1940 section and I will post up the war diary pages for you ....Eventually. A
Andy, I know you always answer and how busy you are simply by having a look to the other threads.... When you have time, please have a look to the attached document. It reads in the upper right corner as the sender of the message in abreviated french "Cl Cdt le 2 Rgt de chars", so in litteral french "Colonel commandant le 2e régiment de Chars". I now suspect the document was issued by the 2nd Armoured Brigade (and may be by Lt Hettier de Boislambert, the french liaison officer serving Major Mac Creary). So I have: - two names: Hinton and Carrey Thomas - two possible Bde 3rd Brigade/2nd ABde Let you search whenever you can Cheers Jean-Philippe
From Press on Regardless: The story of the 5th Royal Tank Regiment in WW2 by Edward Wilson The 8th and 9th June were spent sorting the battalion out and in moving to a new harbour. The composite battalion moved back across the Seine, leaving one troop from 5 RTR under 2/Lt Hinton to guard the approaches to the bridge at Les Andleys. This detachment was later enforced by a skeleton squadron commanded by Major Pritchett.
Thank you Drew, Life is so simple with you. We have just to dream about some document. And then it comes true! The first report is great. The second is fantastic. Now I have to work on it...and I will then send you the whole story at Les Andelys-Venables for the 9th June (10th June will follow) (I remember you read french). Thanks again. Jean-Philippe
Drew, I am a new member to this forum and recently discovered this thread where you assisted Jean-Philippe with his research. My later grandfather served with various battalions of the RTC from1932-1938 and was recalled to duty on 15 August 1939 and returned to 5 RTR on the declaration of War in September 1939. He was subsequently posted to 49 RTR in October 1940 until October 1944 when he transferred to the Royal Scots Greys. I am conducting more detailed research into war service in preparation for a visit to France (July-August 2024) from Australia later this year and wondered if you could give me access to the War Diary WO 167/449 for the period May - June 1940. (
Jean-Philippe Jean-Philippe, I am a new member to this forum and recently discovered this thread where Drew assisted you with your research. My late paternal grandfather served with various battalions of the RTC from1932-1938 and was recalled to duty on 15 August 1939 and returned to 5 RTR on the declaration of War in September 1939. He was subsequently posted to 49 RTR in October 1940 where he served until October 1944 when he transferred to the Royal Scots Greys. I am conducting more detailed research into war service in preparation for a visit to France (July-August 2024) from Australia later this year and wondered if you could give me access to the War Diary WO 167/449 for the period May - June 1940 or point me in the direction of any other documents, posts or forums that you believe may be of assistance. Regards, John
