British Tank Development.

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. JohnB

    JohnB Junior Member

    Yes, Sir Thomas Inskip Minister for Co-ordination of Defence defined Britains military priorities in December 1937 as defence of Britain from air attack, then defence of Britains trade routes, then defence of overseas territories and only last that of a commitment to the continent.
     
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  2. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    This policy was inspired by Basil Liddell-Hart and his book "The British Way in Warfare". Liddell-Hart was a confident of both Neville Chamberlain and the Secretary of State for War, Lesilie Hore-Belisha during this period.
     
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  3. L. Allen

    L. Allen Member

    What books on this subject do people recommend?
     
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  4. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Don't I know it! This arrived today:

    A13 book.JPG

    That should keep me busy for a while. :D

    Regards

    Tom
     
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  5. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    L-H was a serious drag on the war effort. Orwell thought so and said so in a review of the British Way in Warfare (Collected Essays, Journalism, and Letters of George Orwell, II, 246-49). "Disgusted by the spectacle of Passchendaele, Captain Liddell Hart seems to have ended by believing that wars can be won on the defensive or without fighting--and even, indeed, that a war is better half-won than won outright. That holds good only when your enemy thinks likewise, a state of affairs which disappeared when Europe ceased to be ruled by an aristocracy (ibid., p.249)"
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022 at 11:39 PM
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  6. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I am not an expert on this subject, but you could begin with Death by Design by Peter Beale and The Great Tank Scandal by David Fletcher. The classic critical view of the M4 Sherman tank, the most important of US vehicles supplied to Britain, is Death Traps by Belton Cooper--an extremely flawed but often cited work. You should also consult more recent works on US-designed tanks by Steven Zaloga and the excellent online work by the Chieftain (right name Nicholas Moran). For late war British armor and its tactics and battlefield performance, see John Buckley's excellent British Armour in Normandy. There are innumerable technical guides of varying reliability. The most comprehensive of the earlier guides is probably Chamberlain and Ellis, British and American Tanks of WWII. Many websites and recent books on individual vehicles have superseded C&E, but as far as I am aware nobody has yet produced a single volume hard copy work summarizing the latest technical scholarship. Other valuable works are mentioned in this thread, including the technical studies of individual vehicles by our esteemed Don Juan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022 at 11:51 PM
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  7. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    In addition to those books suggested above by TTH, I would like to add EVERYTHING WORKED LIKE CLOCKWORK: The Mechanization of British Regular and Household Cavalry 1918-1942, by Roger Salmon, if you are looking at the mechanization phase.
     
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  8. L. Allen

    L. Allen Member

    Thank you for the recommendations, I will see which of those books I can get my hands on!
     
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  9. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    In fairness to Baz, he was part of a wider movement whose other main pole was Julian Corbett. There's a study of Corbett and his views here, which I haven't read, but could be of interest to some on here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022 at 10:46 AM
  10. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    This book is the best place to start, imho.
     
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  11. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian Patron

    Coming out recommending Death Traps and Death By Design is... a bold move. At very least, L Allen, you should understand that you are buying books which are very much NOT giving a balanced perspective. It's more like "the case for the prosecution" as they would say in an American legal drama.
     
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  12. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian Patron

    It's a good book.
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Always Fletcher for me as a recommended starting point.
    Long in the tooth, maybe, skips along, but his sheer readable 'conversational' style is such a smooth entry to the subject. Dryness can kill an early interest so easily. He engenders a real 'what was all that about?' curiosity in the reader. Perfect first stepping stone to trying to answer that question.

    Two volumes Trilogy on British armour - interwar to the end of WW2.
    Mechanised Force.
    The Great Tank Scandal.
    The Universal Tank.
    (All recently reprinted, at last, by the Tank Museum.)

    BTW.
    Read Cooper/Ambrose's Death Traps, if you may, but it's objectively a bad book that has twisted the discussion in too many places for too long..
    What could have been a reasonable 'narrow view' memoir spun up out of all proportion to its worth. (I think - hope - by a historian who used that readability thing to mask the fact he was a lazy sensationalist.)
     
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  14. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I am not an expert on this subject, but you could begin with Death by Design by Peter Beale and The Great Tank Scandal by David Fletcher. The classic critical view of the M4 Sherman tank, the most important of US vehicles supplied to Britain, is Death Traps by Belton Cooper--an extremely flawed but often cited work. You should also consult more recent works on US-designed tanks by Steven Zaloga and the excellent online work by the Chieftain (AKA Nicholas Moran). For late war British armor and its tactics and battlefield performance, see John Buckley's excellent British Armour in Normandy. There are innumerable technical guides of varying reliability. The most comprehensive of the earlier guides is probably Chamberlain and Ellis, British and American Tanks of WWII. Many websites and recent books on individual vehicles have superseded C&E, but as far as I am aware nobody has yet produced a single volume hard copy volume summarizing the latest technical scholarship. Other valuable works are mentioned in this thread, including the technical studies of individual vehicles by our esteemed Don Juan.
    I mentioned the above books precisely because they are not balanced. They are nonetheless helpful in understanding the controversy.
     
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  15. L. Allen

    L. Allen Member

    Thank you all for the recommendations, my extensive backlog just got larger. I have heard of Death Traps before and its rather biased portrayal of the Sherman if it is the book I think it is. I think I will start with Don Juans recommendation and see where it takes me.
     
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  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Anybody read this?
    Popped up while trying to ditch some built up Google credits.
    20+ years old, but don't think I've ever noticed it before.

    British Armour Theory and the Rise of the Panzer Arm - Revising the Revisionists
    - Azar Gat.

    "Utilizing hitherto untapped archival sources, Azar Gat overturns recent historiographical trends in the study of British and German armour developments between the two World Wars. He reinstates British pioneering theory and practice as the inspiration for the creators of the Panzer arm that made possible Germany's 'Blitzkrieg' victories in the opening stage of World War II."
     
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  17. DogDodger

    DogDodger Member

    Been quite a while since I've read it, but I seem to recall him doing a decent service to restore Liddell Hart's reputation as far as influence on interwar German thought by using periodicals that were overlooked or ignored by earlier critics. It's a short book, but recommended.
    [​IMG]
     
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