British higher level markings in Italy 1944?

Discussion in 'Vehicle Names and Census Numbers' started by Chris C, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi all,

    I'm wondering if anyone has a source for corps markings in Italy in 1944? Did they use the same tables as in NWE?

    My question is prompted by this photo of a 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment M10C (Achilles) crossing the Savio in October 1944. It was 5th Corps' anti-tank regiment and you can see the 5th Corps longship emblem on the left mud guard (to our right, in the photo).

    BUUUUUT... on the right mud guard is an 11 (with a white stripe above, for corps). If this was in Northwest Europe, my copy of Warpaint would tell me that 11 was for the recce regiment.

    large_000000(1).jpg

    The only chart I can recall seeing is this Canadian one from August 1944, which sadly is partial and only lists the artillery units. It gives a 2 for the anti-tank regiment which is also what was used in NWE. And granted this is a Canadian corps, but I think they would have been using the same chart as both corps were in 8th Army.

    oocihm.lac_reel_t16722_data_sip_data_files_1236.jpg.jpg
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Hope this helps .
    From WO32/11617
    Corps units.
    11 is spare for artillery unit.
    Thanks to the late ADM199 , aka Brian Sims.
    Markings 068.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    1940 is awfully early but that is a VERY interesting connection. I should look at the charts for corps in the desert, if I have any.
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Ah, I didn't notice the date.
    Here's the 1944 pages for Corps troops.
    Sadly no 11 , anti-tank regt crossed out was 2.
    (maybe as it's Italy it's a Roman II :) )
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  5. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

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  6. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Well, that's mysterious. Why is anti-tank regiment crossed out?

    I believe the corps anti-tank regiments were broken up in the winter of 1944-45 but that document is too early. May 1944?
     
  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thanks! I'm not sure anything in there is directly applicable to British forces in the UK - the vast majority of it is about Canadian home forces. But there are some interesting bits there - for instance, I didn't know that Camp Borden (our armoured corps training centre) applied for its own emblem, admittedly only in September 1944. (A black ram rampant on a yellow circle, with a black ring around the outside.)
     
  8. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    The crossing out just reflected that the Anti-tank Regiments that were Corps Troops became Army/Theatre level units in late 1944, so were no longer considered to be part of 'standard' Corps Troops. 21 Army Group kept its Regiments of this type, while they were disbanded (I can't recall if fully) in Italy.

    Gary
     
  9. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    It took me a while, but of course it must have been scratched out later on. I have a whole file talking about the corps regiment business in the winter of '44-'45.
     

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