British Flag in cemeteries and other Union Flag chat

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Marco, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Getting the Union Flag the wrong way around in WW2.

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205193588

    GIs and British Children: Two hundred British children who had suffered as a result of the war were guests of a United States Unit on Thanksgiving Day in London. Photograph shows a view of the party with Americans serving the children food. The United States and British flags hang together in the background.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Today's Google Doodle.
    Harumph.
    Etc.
    upside.JPG
     
  3. Seroster

    Seroster Desert-mad!

    I don't imagine this is truly of great interest, but although Canada replaced its national flag with the maple leaf design decades ago, provinces and cities did not all change their designs, or in the case of Ontario, deliberately introduced a flag to maintain something traditional.

    So this is the flag of Ontario, introduced in '64:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

  5. Sapper D.

    Sapper D. Member

    Just checked my 'photo's of Sicliy, Asiss, Arezzoi and Ypres (WW1) - cannot spot a Union flag on any picture I've saved.
    In Ypres they do 'a bunch' of flags at cemetaries sometimes - Union, Oz, Belgium & sometimes French.
    Rarely Kiwi, Saffer, Indian or Canadian. Strange really, or not?
     
  6. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Gunner Tours

    It is CWGC policy not to fly flags in Commonwealth War Cemeteries. There isnlt a statement about the issue on the CWGC website, but I can understand why this might be so. Fabian Ware's three principles were about everyone being commemorated, everyone treated equally and buried as close as possible to where they fell. The IWG committee oversaw a monumental architecture, wordings and horticulture. The theme was Remembrance and triumphalism was avoided. Nothing about flying national flags.

    Flying the flag isn't a big part of British culture. Its something flown on government buildings and waved by the public at sporting or royal events, but it isn't an everyday statement. Flags can be a divisive issue in the United Kingdom.
     
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  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Two things, (one since Drew's still banging on about this elsewhere ;) )
    Union Jack is absolutely fine terminology.
    Again. This page:
    The Union Jack or The Union Flag? - The Flag Institute

    More detail... Much more detail...:
    https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Union-Jack-or-Union-Flag.pdf


    Second thing:
    Does an upside down Union Jack really signal distress?
    Seems highly debatable, it not being the most noticeably reversed flag in a heaving ocean.
    Looks like order/place, lengthways hanging or even a knot tied in it was more the thing.
    eg.:
    Flying flags upside down

    Has this idea of any significance in reversal come from Septic usage, where they take their flags a bit more seriously, it's more noticeable when reversed, and the upside-down symbolism seems to be more deeply ingrained.


    4a14c75aa606f6e2bd35c30146a785c9--flags-bang-bang.jpg
     
  8. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles & Yellow Cockerels

    Personal preference, but I think I tend to call the design The/a Union Jack--when I see it on clothing or product packaging or even a sewn-on patch, but when it's an actual flag I invariably call it The Union Flag.

    Perhaps the latter is down to my scoutmaster...

    Edit: and to conflate matters, in the case of flags that incorporate the British flag in the design, such as those of Australia & New Zealand, I'd say that they had a/The Union Jack in the corner (as that image is not a flag in itself).
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Is absolutely fine.
    Looking forward to your reasoning in counter to the Flag Institute stuff, which you've been shown before.

    (Look them up. Remarkable vexillology nerds, with connections to Govt and Royal committees.)
     
  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Regarding flying the Union Jack over cemeteries where military dead lie,there is an article in this RAFA's October -November Air Mail regarding the Crown Hill cemetery at Albany,Georgia.

    Here the Union Jack flies and where the graves are attended to through the effort of local volunteers.

    I note that while the cemetery is registered with the CWGC,the traditional tombstone is not in use and the grave markers are an unique ground plaque type.

    Per Ardua Ad Astra
     

    Attached Files:

  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Attached Files:

  13. timuk

    timuk Active Member

    Interesting. I haven't seen the other threads on this but it made me check my Admiralty Manual of Seamanship issued to me many moons ago. Perhaps they were avoiding controversy but nowhere do they refer to the Union Jack. It is always called the Union Flag. Under the section Jacks it says: 'Jack' is the name given to the colours worn on a staff at the stem or on the bowsprit by ships or vessels at anchor or alongside. It is a smaller flag than the corresponding ensign and can be square or rectangular in shape.
    Ships of the Royal Navy wear the Union Flag. Merchant ships usually fly their house flag as their jack....................... The wearing of the Union Flag is therefore still reserved exclusively for HM Ships although its use is confined to wearing it as a jack in harbour, and at sea only when ships are dressed.
    In any case does it really matter. It's a bit like the mantra drummed into me 'Shoe laces are tied up, ships are secured.'
    Tim
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is a photo of my 1939-dated flag-knife. Or am I missing something ?

    PA071041.JPG
     
  15. timuk

    timuk Active Member

    Hey - I've got one of those too somewhere.
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No counter argument - I'm just a stubborn retard :screwy:
     
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  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    That's alright... Jack.
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    :flaguk: <<<<< Looks like a fine flag to me :D
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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