British Defences

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Dpalme01, Jun 20, 2005.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    does anyone have stats on the strength of the home fleet at this crucial time.yours,lee.

    This was the total RN strength in 1939. All would not have been available in September 1940 due to other duties.


    15 Battleships & battlecruisers
    7 Aircraft carriers.
    66 Cruisers
    184 Destroyers of all types
    60 Submarines, mainly modern with nine building.
    45 escort and patrol vessels
    The first 56 'Flower' class corvettes on order to add to the converted 'V' and 'W's' and 'Hunts'
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    In 1942 I was a callow 18 year old awaiting my call-up into the forces.

    I was living in a small village named Houghton Regis, close to Luton and about 30 odd miles from London.

    For the past year I had been an Air Raid Warden in Civil Defence and we used to train with the local Home Guard. I vividly remember the "exercises" we used to go on most week-ends and the wonderful home made contraptions we were taught to use in the event that the Germans ever landed on British soil. Our main weapons were milk bottles full of petrol with a rag stuffed into the neck of the bottle for a fuse.

    In October the same year I was finally called up and by December was stationed at Whitby in Yorkshire being trained as a Driver/Wireless Operator.
    Most nights, after a hectic day's training, we would find ourselves on guard and manning pill boxes strategically placed on the cliff tops of nearby Robin Hood's Bay.
    Two men to a pill box, armed with Lee Enfield rifles and 5 rounds of ammo for each of us.
    You could say that England was slightly un-prepared for a German attack !

    By that time I think you would agree that there was no threat of a German invasion.

    The munitions situation was not a problem at the end of 1942. As I posted before, these stocks were received from the US in July 1940 just after Dunkirk.

    Many may not have been aware at the time, however they were there.

    - 785,000 .30 cal. Lee-Enfield rifles,
    - 130 million rounds .30 ammo.
    - 87,000 machine guns (various types)
    - 6 million rounds .30 cal. machine gun ammo.
    - 900 75mm field guns
    - 1,075,000 75mm shells
    - 308 3" Stokes mortars
    - 97,680 Stokes mortar shells
    - 25,000 BAR's
    - 21,000 revolvers
    - 1,000,000 revolver cartridges
     
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Spidge

    By that time I think you would agree that there was no threat of a German invasion

    In hindsight (Ah.... that word again !......) you are 100% correct, but if I take myself back 65 years and I am there in that bloody cold pillbox, looking out to sea, then I would swear that the incoming surf glowing in the moonlight occasionally revealed the glint of oncoming German barges.

    I wonder how many false alarms were raised by those young lads manning the pillboxes ?

    Cheers !

    Ron
     
  4. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Spidge



    In hindsight (Ah.... that word again !......) you are 100% correct, but if I take myself back 65 years and I am there in that bloody cold pillbox, looking out to sea, then I would swear that the incoming surf glowing in the moonlight occasionally revealed the glint of oncoming German barges.

    I wonder how many false alarms were raised by those young lads manning the pillboxes ?

    Cheers !

    Ron

    I reckon I would be seeing the same!
     
  5. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    with the home fleet of this strength,i think there would be nothing but a bloodbath,the channel would be the graves of many thousands of germans.yours very sincerely,lee.
     
  6. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Senior Member

    Just yesterday, I was reading about how the british were preparing their island for an invasion. Some of the defenses they used were rather interesting. Those underground pipelines which spewed oil to light any enemy ships on fire sounded rather eco- unfriendly :) but they would do the job extremely well.
    Those sea forts were also amazing. The thing is that there is so much said on the German defences (hedge hogs, rommel's asparagus etc.) but not a whole lot about the allies. Does anyone know any more about this?


    Yes, a underwater pipeline was developed, I believe there was one at Dover which was tested quite heavily, not least because on a clear day the occupying Germans in France could see the vast clouds of smoke resulting.

    It wasn't particularly effective though, but this didn't stop the British claiming that it was and generating propaganda on the back of it. The most famous of these probably being Sefton Delmer's BBC broadcast:


    “We English, as you know, are notoriously bad at languages,” said I, talking my most impeccable German, “and so it will be best, meine Herren Engellandfahrer, 11 if you learn a few useful English phrases before visiting us.
    “For your first lesson we will take:
    “Die Kanalüberfahrt… the Channel crossing, the Chan-nel cros-sing.”
    “Now just repeat after me:
    “Das Boot sinkt... the boat is sinking, the boat is sin-king;
    “Das Wasser ist kalt… the water is cold. Sehr kalt… very cold.”
    “Now, I will give you a verb that should come in useful. Again please repeat after me:
    “Ich brenne… I burn;
    “Du brennst… you burn;
    “Er brennt… he burns;
    “Wir brennen… we burn;
    “Ihr brennt… you are burning.”
    “Yes, meine Herren, in English, a rather practical language, we use the same word ‘you’ for both the singular and the plural:
    “Ihr brennt... you are burning;
    “Sie brennen… they burn.”
    “And if I may be allowed to suggest a phrase:
    Der SS-Sturmführer brennt auch ganz schön… The SS Captain is also burning quite nicely, the SS Captain is al-so bur-ning quite nice-ly!”

    This was later used in the propaganda leaflet Wir fahren gegen Engelland (EH.473)

    [​IMG]

    In Delmer's "Black Boomerang" he explains how this encouraged the German forces to believe it was a very effective weapon, when aside from generating a good smoke screen it really wasn't. It's a prime example of allied propaganda being so effective that it's ended up being believed by both sides to this day.

    The sea forts are fascinating, on a good day I can see some of them from my hometown. Luftwaffe navigation to London was simple to start with they just had to fly towards the North Foreland in east Kent and follow the north Kent coast to the Thames Estuary. AA was sited along that coast, so the Luftwaffe just followed the coast a bit further out to sea and out of range. The seaforts addressed that, as well as on the Essex side, and reduced the Luftwaffe to having to fly in over the North Sea if they wanted to avoid flak.

    Sadly the one off Margate sank after a harsh storm, the others remain but in a pretty poor state. One of them has been declared an independent state called Sealand. The Principality of Sealand.

    Pile of pictures here- sealand - Google Image Search
     
    von Poop likes this.
  7. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    there are quite a few pillboxes in chipnum,by the bristol avon.they have grass on top.we played war with our air guns when i was kid.yours,lee
     
  8. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    If anyone is interested in checking out UK defences of the 20th century then have a look at the Defence of Britain Project online database. Searchable by location, NGR, place name aand type of facility. Very useful.

    http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/specColl/dob/index.cfm

    H
     
  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    And if you have Google Earth, you can download a zip file at the DoB database which allows you to display all the entries on a virtual UK map before zooming in, once you've saved it to the "my places" folder in GE.
    Word of warning though.....DON'T click the relevant DoB box and ask your pc to show ALL the entries at once. Trust me on that one.......;)
     
  10. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Ron my company trained around the Robin Hood bay area.
    I was in Poole earlier on the end of the quay in a hut, watching for any sea mines dropped by German aircraft with a Device marked in degrees where the splash took place. never saw any!
    Sapper
     
  11. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Ron my company trained around the Robin Hood bay area.
    I was in Poole earlier on the end of the quay in a hut, watching for any sea mines dropped by German aircraft with a Device marked in degrees where the splash took place. never saw any!
    Sapper

    Hi Sapper

    I should have also mentioned the pillboxes at Sandsend, it was always a toss-up over which piece of coastline we would be guarding that particular night.

    Whilst writing, I wonder if you remember an oddity that was part of the Whitby experience.

    It must have occured to most of the women in the area that the garrison of troops would always be looking for a slice of home comforts. It seemed to me that every other basement in the area was turned over to supplying us with malt bread and scalding hot tea. There would inevitably be a wind-up gramophone scratching away in the background and we used to bolt the refreshment down before whoever was in charge yelled out "everyone outside in two minutes flat !"

    Keep taking the tablets !

    Cheers

    Ron
     
  12. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    there are lots of pillboxes on tht chippenham to melksham road too,right up against the railway batters.used to lay lots of wires along there,i suppose the pillboxes are about 1/2 mile apart.that would be about 15 rabbit snares apart.yours,lee
     
  13. Andy H

    Andy H Member

    What do I have to back up my statements? Experience laddy! And living through those times... We were alone. and there was only one British Division that was operational...That was achieved by giving the Third Div all that was available after Dunkirk.
    Sapper

    With all due respect to your experience, historically it is highly unlikely that the Germans would have been in London anytime soon, let alone midday

    Regards

    Andy H
     
  14. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    “And if I may be allowed to suggest a phrase:
    Der SS-Sturmführer brennt auch ganz schön… The SS Captain is also burning quite nicely, the SS Captain is al-so bur-ning quite nice-ly!”




    I'm sorry. I know I really shouldn't have been staggering about the place, clutching my stomach with laughter, after reading that ..... But, here I go again! :lol:

    Simply priceless!
     
  15. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Here are a couple that I had not seen before.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    taken from a 1957 published book called 'The Defence of the United Kingdom' by Basil Collier.
     
  16. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Good camouflage :lol::lol::lol:
     
  17. Auditman

    Auditman Senior Member

    Hi
    Not sure if this is the right thread but I saw some pillboxes in the North of Sandown area on a holiday on the Isle of Wight. I attach a few photos of one of them. This box strikes me as not one of the standard designs with very small rifle ports. Would these have been a local defence item, possibly Home Guard?

    Any info would be appreciated

    Jim
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Jim,

    There's a member on here who owns/runs The Defence of Britain website. I'm sure he would be able to fill you in if no one else can. His user name escapes me at the moment.

    Andy
     
  19. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    That horse is on the WRONG side of the barbed wire - I take it it's a cunningly disguised pantomime horse with a small Home Guard person in both ends??? :)

    On a more serious note - take a look at the Glider obstacles pic....that's yet ANOTHER WWII-era dual carriage way pic! Fairly coming out of the woodwork this year!!!
     
  20. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    I recently noted pillboxes covering the rail-bridge at Kew there is one covering the north side of the bridge the second about 100 meters south of the bridge on the right hand side of the track traveling south. The firing slots have been bricked up.
     

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