If the Japanese had gone for the continental US, they could have probably even held it. Your having a laugh-Japan may well have landed but there's no way in which they could logistically maintain any such force
Originally posted by Cheshire Yeomanry@Jul 10 2005, 03:44 PM If the Japanese had gone for the continental US, they could have probably even held it. Your having a laugh-Japan may well have landed but there's no way in which they could logistically maintain any such force [post=36313]Quoted post[/post] I agree, but lets not drift off topic. If anyone wants to discuss a hypothetical Japanese invasion of the USA, please start a new thread.
The British defences were absolute rubbish. had the Germans invaded they would have been in London by mid-day. Have you anything to back up that statement?
Originally posted by Cheshire Yeomanry@Jul 11 2005, 08:40 AM The Australian 18th Infantry Brigade was in the UK in the summer of 1940 [post=36326]Quoted post[/post] Thanks for remembering the Aussies Cheshire!
There were two Australian brigades and two New Zealand brigades, one of which was formed there, and included a unit of New Zealanders living in Britain. They formed an anti-tank battery. All hands went back to the Middle East. There was also a Free French Regiment of Foreign Legionnaires, drawn from the 13th Demi-Brigade, back from Narvik. They rallied to Charles De Gaulle. Some of the free Poles in Britain at the time manned railway artillery units, of all things.
The decider was the Royal Navy. Even with air superiority the army and particularly Hitler was particularly nervous of the sea crossing and more importantly re-supply. Almost all the wargames played on this have shown that the germans could have made a scuccessful landing, but would have been unable to re-supply their troops effectively. You might want to check out my web site on the remaining Uk Invasion defences at UK Pillboxes.
THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 3306)IWM Non Commercial Licence Pillbox camouflaged as a car in Felixstowe, 24 August 1940.
There were two Australian brigades and two New Zealand brigades, one of which was formed there, and included a unit of New Zealanders living in Britain. They formed an anti-tank battery. All hands went back to the Middle East. There was also a Free French Regiment of Foreign Legionnaires, drawn from the 13th Demi-Brigade, back from Narvik. They rallied to Charles De Gaulle. Some of the free Poles in Britain at the time manned railway artillery units, of all things. Hey don't forget the Canadian 1st & 2nd div's were in Britain in the fall of 1940!
In 1942 I was a callow 18 year old awaiting my call-up into the forces. I was living in a small village named Houghton Regis, close to Luton and about 30 odd miles from London. For the past year I had been an Air Raid Warden in Civil Defence and we used to train with the local Home Guard. I vividly remember the "exercises" we used to go on most week-ends and the wonderful home made contraptions we were taught to use in the event that the Germans ever landed on British soil. Our main weapons were milk bottles full of petrol with a rag stuffed into the neck of the bottle for a fuse. In October the same year I was finally called up and by December was stationed at Whitby in Yorkshire being trained as a Driver/Wireless Operator. Most nights, after a hectic day's training, we would find ourselves on guard and manning pill boxes strategically placed on the cliff tops of nearby Robin Hood's Bay. Two men to a pill box, armed with Lee Enfield rifles and 5 rounds of ammo for each of us. You could say that England was slightly un-prepared for a German attack !
what about the home fleet,if the jerries attacked in their barges,the fleet would have deployed with or without air support,can you imagine the carnage with god knows how many detroyers steaming at 30knots,light and heavy cruisers ramming river barges,and then the battleships dealing out their carnage.at that time the luftwaffe was not a great anti-shipping wepon.they would have sunk a few,but those germans would be mashed up big time.yours very sincerely,lee.
Hey don't forget the Canadian 1st & 2nd div's were in Britain in the fall of 1940! 1st Canadian Div December 1939 2nd Canadian Div August 1940 Australian 18th Brigade Australian 25th Brigade (Raised in England) 2nd Echelon, 2nd NZEF - On assembly on 12 January 1940arrived in England 16th June 1940Papakura: 'C' Squadron, Divisional Cavalry Regiment 21st Infantry Battalion HQ NZE (details) 7th Field Company, NZE 11th Forestry Company, NZE Ngaruawahia: HQ NZA (details) HQ and 31st, 32nd Batteries, 7th Anti-Tank Regiment, NZA 5th Field Regiment, NZA Palmerston North: 28th (Maori) Infantry Battalion Trentham: HQ NZ Division (details) Divisional Signals (details) 22nd Infantry Battalion HQ 5th Infantry Brigade (4th and 5th Anti-Tank Companies attached) Burnham: 23rd Infantry Battalion HQ Railway Construction and Maintenance Group 9th Railway Survey Company, NZE 10th Railway Construction Company, NZE Added to this there were 130,000 French troops lifted from Dunkirk. In June 1940 the British Army had 22 infantry divisions and one armoured division. The infantry divisions were, on average, at half strength, had only one-sixth of their normal artillery and were almost totally lacking in transport. There was a critical shortage of ammunition such that none could be spared for practice. VII corps was formed to control the Home Forces' general reserve, and included the First Armoured Division. These munitions etc were received from the US just after Dunkirk in July 1940" - 785,000 .30 cal. Lee-Enfield rifles, - 130 million rounds .30 ammo. - 87,000 machine guns (various types) - 6 million rounds .30 cal. machine gun ammo. - 900 75mm field guns - 1,075,000 75mm shells - 308 3" Stokes mortars - 97,680 Stokes mortar shells - 25,000 BAR's - 21,000 revolvers - 1,000,000 revolver cartridges So not quite defenceless one would think.
What do I have to back up my statements? Experience laddy! And living through those times... We were alone. and there was only one British Division that was operational...That was achieved by giving the Third Div all that was available after Dunkirk. Sapper
sapper,was monty still your div commander all through the summer,and,or was he promoted to defend the south east.yours very sincerely,lee.
what about the home fleet,if the jerries attacked in their barges,the fleet would have deployed with or without air support,can you imagine the carnage with god knows how many detroyers steaming at 30knots,light and heavy cruisers ramming river barges,and then the battleships dealing out their carnage.at that time the luftwaffe was not a great anti-shipping wepon.they would have sunk a few,but those germans would be mashed up big time.yours very sincerely,lee. You are right, the key question was if the Germans could get their barges across the channel. Control of the air was only the FIRST step. The germans did not have enough airborne to invade by air, they needed to sail across the channel. One of the key considerations was if the Germans could protect their barges from British SUBMARINES. To do this they needed to clear the RN from the channel, and attempt to sweep the subs with their very limited destroyer & e-boat force. The Germans had lost 10 (!) destroyers in the Norway campaign, they only had 6 or 7 still operational. Not to mention the cruisers lost. The Kriegsmarine were not all that confident of the operation after the heavy losses in Norway. (Note to KM destroyer captains - don't pick a fight with the Warspite!)
Cheers. Monty had moved on. The one reason why we were not invaded was the Navy. If the Germans had come over in barges? the mere wash of a passing destroyer would have capsized their craft. Had he had enough Paras he could have taken us, but first, he has to get control of the air.....The Few saw to that. Once he got here. Then all was lost, For we never even had rifles and ammo, except my old div. Sapper
