When reading the new book The Encyclopedia of French Tanks and Armoured Vehicles 1914-1940 by Francois Vauvillier, I came across this information on page 118. It was previously unknown to me and thought it might be of interest. The article begins with mentioning the Chasseurs of 342e CACC (Compagnie Autonome de Chars de Combat) who had been sent to Narvik with Hotchkiss H39 tanks. It continues: I've attached the best picture I could take of the photograph. Haven't yet found any other mention of the tank's French service but will keep searching and update if I find anything new.
Sorry Drew there isn't any more information provided than 1st Armoured. I'll keep digging on French websites and if I turn up any more I'll post it.
If anyone knows the answer off the top of his head it will be the Military Historian Peter Brown who has written extensively about the early Cruiser tanks. Dick Taylor, also a Military Historian and tank markings guru may also know. I will ask them both!
No worries....I have all the war diaries but was looking for a short cut. I'll look through them when I finish my current run of night shifts.
Now there's a tome I might have to break my book moratorium for. Been wanting encyclopaedic coverage of French stuff for years - bit of a bee in my bonnet about it. Is it good? H&C usually have a rather decent quality standard. Sorry for the slight digression - very interesting shot of the 'French' cruisers. Wondering if anything I have on later German usage mentions temporary French ownership. Having a shufti now.
Oh it's definitely worth it if you're interested in French armour. It covers everything and I mean everything. From one offs and prototypes to service vehicles. Engineering tanks, mine clearers, armoured cars, colonial armour. There's even another picture of the FCM M1 prototype which, IIRC, was the solution to a long existing "Can you identify this vehicle" thread on this very forum.
Hi all, joining late, but.... I would question whether this picture is in Brest. Perhaps not even in France. Why? The remaining 'runners' from 1 Armd Div drove to Cherbourg under cmnd 3 Armd Bde / Brig John Crocker. The remaining 'non-runners' (but worrthy of retention) from 1 Armd Div were loaded onto rail bound for Brest - but never seen again!! Nevertheless, the majority of 1 Armd Div personnel evacuated via Brest. Now, and I'll quote the original French (my bold) for other better linguists to critique.... From my schoolboy French received from a bygone era, it says that, they arrived back in France (Brest) just before the Germans got there so some (17) decided to depart again immediatly with (and to continue the fight) the British to England. Then it mentions they created a new unit in the UK. Perhaps they were just a very minor sub sub-unit (troop) playing with some of the tanks in a reforming 5RTR before setting off at the end of August with the tanks recovered from Norway?
The interesting piece for me is the sentence before your bold section: Les hommes de la 342e CACC sont débarqués en France sans leurs chars qui, avec les autres matériels du corps expéditionnaire ont été dirigés sur un port anglais Translation: The men of the 342nd CACC are landed in France without their tanks which, with the other materials/equipment of the expeditionary force were landed at an English port. So to me the men were landed back in France, then evacuated back to the UK, whilst their tanks and equipment were landed in UK. It would seem that 17 of the men and 2 Lieutenants evacuated back to the UK to follow (carry on) the fight, where they were 'reinforced' by other young evading Frenchmen with the same motivation. TD Just found an image of one at Narvik: from web site: http://atf40.forumculture.net/t1057-les-chars-engages-du-cote-francais
There is also another site which provides the numbering of each, crew details and its situation: http://www.atf40.fr/ATF40/documents/norvege/342%20CACC.pdf TD
I missed this thread first time around last September... Regarding V-Ps comment...David Fletcher did a picture-heavy article in CMV two years ago about the Cruiser beutepanzers, including some shots of them on capture and during the very early days of use and conversion. Might be worth a look for matching markings?
I understand exactly the same. Moreover, it seems they were were requainted with their Hotchkisses and all were packed off to Senegal. With, and my interpretation, just a few days attached to 5RTR.
The photo was a great find but I too was sceptical about M. Vauvillier’s explanation and offer the following hypothesis and evidence for consideration. CAB 66 contains Chiefs of Staff Committee reports including a series covering the build-up of the ‘Free’ Allied Contingents. They confirm that: “French equipment in depots in this country, chiefly ex Norway, is being sent to Aldershot in order, on the one hand, to complete the equipment of the Foreign Legion as a fighting unit and, on the other hand, to provide material for equipping and training the other units. To date [5/8/1940] the only arrival is a battery of 4—75 mm. field guns with limbers, and a convoy of 50 vehicles of various kinds is shortly arriving. To this convoy will be added 11 tanks.” These tanks were 342e CACC’s H39s. Perhaps the missing twelfth tank was receiving some TLC after being dropped into the sea and recovered. These equipped the newly formed 1ère CACC and embarked for West Africa 31/8/1940. It follows therefore that unless anyone is aware of any other French tanks being recovered to Britain then, at least until deliveries of U.S. tanks began, all subsequent references to tanks in these reports must relate to British tanks. The following reports mention tanks (there are also later ones too). N.B. these reports collate information from disparate sources which may have been superseded by the date of the COS Committee report. 2/10/1940 “Four officers and two other ranks left on the 22nd September for a fortnights Tank Course with an A.F.V. Instruction Unit”. 14/12/1940 “Tank units have been given instruction in the driving of all vehicles”. 15/1/1941 “Manoeuvres have been carried out by Infantry, Artillery and Tank units”. 12/2/1941 “The Tank Units have done practice driving and have attended technical lectures with the R.M.C. and 2nd Armoured Division. The R.M.C. have been exceedingly helpful”. It’s feasible that the earlier courses were also provided by the Royal Military College and 2AD (or a unit subsequently transferred to 2AD) and as I understand that the 3rd Armoured Brigade, including 5RTR, had joined 2AD during this period (not sure of the dates), it could explain a 5RTR tank in the picture, albeit still with a 1AD symbol, perhaps pointing to the September course. I am also aware that tanks were frequently transferred between units during the second-half of 1940 and beyond, often in penny packets, so perhaps it was just an ex-5RTR tank awaiting its new markings. The ‘A.F.V. Instruction Unit’ may be a reference to a RAC Training Regiment but could the RMC, despite the overall shortage of tanks available, have a few on strength as well? Please advise where your quote comes from Mark. Another thought - the 55th Training Regiment, RAC were based in Farnborough which would have been convenient for the French.
A wider framed print of the original photo appears in Peter Brown’s new British Cruiser Tanks A9 & A10. Peter says that these tanks “had been abandoned when the remnants of 1st Armoured Division left Calais, there is no evidence that they saw action in French hands” but this must be incorrect as it was 3RTR, not 5RTR, that went to Calais. Perhaps he actually meant Cherbourg. I am not convinced. In the background of the wider picture is a civilian with a briefcase, and possibly in a bowler, casually walking along the road. The whole image looks too relaxed to me to have been taken in the brief period between the British departure and the German occupation, and if these tanks had been abandoned then I am surprised that no German souvenir pictures have emerged yet. Scan added. This story has been taken-up in another thread and compelling evidence found that at least the leading tank was lost in France, and looking closer at the picture there is a distinctly French looking concrete telephone stanchion behind that tank. How many tanks?
